Is there a reason we can’t just all use Quik across the de-googled OSes? Vendor specific solutions only further the closed ecosystem problem.
Oh shit. So, grapheneOS is reinventing the wheel, when we have one? Interesting.
As a basic sms user, is RCS the reason my conversations now sometimes get flooded with messages like, “so-and-so loved this”?
Quik, an open source SMS app on FDroid, handles this already without needing a specific OSes RCS.
Unless there is something fundamental thats wrong with Quik and its development, I dont see why one would be excited about another vendor specific solution. Quik works on any degoogled android, not just Graphene.
I might try Quik again at some point, but to be honest I don’t care enough about sms messaging apps to go beyond the default one usually. I think I remember I stopped using Quik because at least at the time it didn’t have link previews, which is a hell of a lot more convenient to me than emoji react buttons.
Yup
If you’re on Android, the Textra app handles most of the emojis on messages without needing RCS. Sadly it still doesn’t work with reactions to images yet.
Looks like scamware, only available on Play Store, and it doesn’t look like it’s open-source. I wouldn’t go near that.
Why? You aren’t confortable with a random guy developing an app having access to your conversations or to your 2FA codes from your bank?
TBF I used it for a couple of years, tho I don’t anymore. It’s a good app. Didn’t get robbed or murdered.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! I’ve been busy, ok?!? Now if you could stop moving, I can’t aim!!
Aw helllllllll yeah 😎
Excellent! Since Signal removed SMS support there’s no trusted app supporting old SMS and encrypted messaging on one UI
SMS is not to be trusted because it is plain text and full of vulnerabilities.
however SMS doesn’t need a data connection, just a mobile signal, so as an emergency backup type of communication it’s great
I know. But I still need it whether I want it or not.
I have a limited data plan, so the only way I can communicate when I’m not on WiFi is by good ol’ fashioned text and call.
If you’re only sending text messages (no voice memos, stickers, photos or videos), you’re data plan should never be an issue when using Signal.
That old behavior of Signal confused what was encrypted and what isn’t.
It really didn’t. Blue messages encrypted, green not encrypted. There was nothing confusing there
I agree, it was a huge bummer that they removed it. Their reasoning didn’t quite make sense for me.
I think a huge selling point was that it wasn’t one more app to message with, you could just replace your SMS app and if your contacts also had Signal, your messages would be encrypted. Very simple proposition.
A big hurdle with RCS was carrier adoption, at least in Asia.
I wonder about two things:
- Would Graphene team’s implementation be usable on other devices that are less fortunate to be supported by the OS?
- Would this be a drop-in replacement or would Graphene team need to work with carriers so that their implementation actually work?
On a tangential note, I would really like to read an in-depth analysis of how RCS had such a botched up implementation, which it has still to recover from almost a decade later.
The adoption is nowhere close to what it should have been, and instead it is now more associated with spam than actual communication. The Wikipedia entry does cover a lot of aspects, but it doesn’t explain how it went wrong.
biggest hurdle after that is that it still sucks ass compared to e2ee IM apps, and no one uses SMS nowadays anyway, so we barely benefit from pre existing SMS users that would be able to seemslessly swap to RCS because SMS users don’t really exist, it basically has to face against the network effect of Whatsapp, Facebook messager, iMessage and WeChat, just like Signal has too [face the network effect] while being less secure than Signal and having less features
You’re worried about the network disadvantages of only reaching people who have cell phones?!
no one should feel forced to have a phone number
Everyone i know uses SMS/RCS or iMessages.
I only use SMS to msg my mum and get 2FA stuff.
The number of Europeans in here acting like What’s App, which might as well be Facebook Messenger, is some sort of high road is hilarious.
I work with a lot of European teams and they always make me use WhatsApp. I hate it.
Yeah I still don’t get why people use or promote WhatsApp. If anything, use Signal or even Telegram
Telegram are you kidding me?? Telegram is a thousand times worse than WhatsApp pal
Not even close lol. The sooner we stop using meta shit the better.
Telegram is worse than even Whatsapp, since it’s not even pretending to be end to end encrypted.
The real choice is signal or threema.
Nah, Signal or Threema
You can’t use Signal or Telegram because your contacts are on WhatsApp, but yes WhatsApp might as well be called Facebook Messenger
Your contacts weren’t always on WhatsApp, stop using it and if they want to talk to you enough they’ll join a better platform. Maybe just keep sending them links every day about how trash WhatsApp and Meta are until they get the point lmao
Already did that, and after two years I’m back on WhatsApp. Everytime you do something at least a bit social it will be a WhatsApp group, you can refuse of course, but believe me, unless it’s really close friends no one is going to put the extra effort to reach you.
I have thought this for years. Everyone slimes on Americans for using iMessage and asks who no WhatsApp? Same reason I’m not on facebook, don’t use a meta quest, and don’t use instagram.
WhatsApp does not commit the sin of not having cross platform support at all, it is genuinely the most pratical and easy to use proprietary IM solution besides the network effect
People will always trade privacy for ease of use.
While Whatsapp is not great, the problem with iMessage is that it is (was?) locked exclusively to the apple platform
Yeah, thats the main issue with imessage (and it still is) and if your switching from IOS to android, you have to start over on all of your messages unless if you figure out a way to back them up.
It’s not a good solution, but from a meme in c/selfhosting i learned that through the price of a used mac mini (about $120 at that time) you can selfhost iMessage on mac, and selfhost a 3rd party free software called Bluebubbles, which, as far as i can tell, uses Google and Cloudflare services to convey the iMessages to your Android phone.
I’m sure it is a privacy nightmare. But the shunning for not having iMessage from my own family was getting to me, real or imagined.
That is just so overly complicated, i would rather just start them over🤣🤣
What do you mean exactly start over? If you don’t have iMessage, you can’t talk to other people with iMessage.
I’ve never had a problem starting over. Used to custom ROM hope back in the day and start with a fresh Android release on the cyanogenmod nightly releases.
There is nothing in my iMessage that I would be sad to lose moving to Android.
Sure but if you want it to work wirhbpbine number you have to have a phone talk about every seven days.
The number of Eastern Europeans pretending Viber is everything is insane
Literally everyone should just use Signal. I really don’t understand why we all don’t.
Signal is pretty great and I use it at least a little myself, but it’s not necessarily perfect. The big elephant that’s always been in the room is its dependence on one backend and the fact they’re based in the US.
Different threat models call for different approaches, and every option has tradeoffs.
- Dropping SMS support made sense from a security standpoint but slaughtered adoption
- When the central server eshittifies, we’ll all have to switch again.
Because people stick with the default. There was a time people I know would try different messaging apps but after hangouts got canceled nobody wants to bother.
Because Signal requires a phone number.
But so does SMS, so signal is just a straight upgrade as an alternative.
Because Signal 1) doesn’t ship as default, and 2) requires a login process.
You’ve already lost the majority of the general public with #1. The Venn diagram of people who go through with #2 and the people who already know about Signal is nearly a complete circle.
Used to shill XMPP but everyone should use Tox at this point ngl.
- No registration
- No phone number
- It’s impossible to send anything unencrypted
downside: Sharing IDs is annoying (QR code if you are on mobile? idk haven’t tried)
updownsides:
- It does not concern itself with backlog storage (unsent messages sit until at least one device of both parties are online)
- It does not concern itself with file storage (sent - poof, gone)
But the same is true for WhatsApp…
You see, the problem is that whatsapp came very early, when it released it wasn’t shit and it provided free messages which in many european countries wasn’t a thing yet, everyone hopped on it and used it as main communication platform, this created a big ass network effect that is nearly unescapeable, even today i can’t escape from it because i am the only idiot who uses Signal and Matrix and no one wants to leave whatsapp because they already have an account and all their contacts
Was true (except for trustworthy encryption). Then network effects took over and peer pressure did the work.
It could happen again in a good way this time, but the resistance will be stiff.
deleted by creator
Because signal dropped SMS support.
I use Signal via Molly and as @lka1988@sh.itjust.works points out, there’s friction in getting users to on to it. But also the UX isn’t even as good as WhatsApp let alone Telegram.
I used signal offical app and honestly it has a good UI and UX, what does it lack? What seems bad? I don’t understand
what ui? there is a namelist, a call icon, a message icon. what in the hell do you need?
one thing missing is support for Android Tablets, its pissing my GF off on her Samsung Tablet and yet it works for my mother on her ipad ffs
2 weeks now on Graphene. This is what a phone OS should be, simple, boring, juste the basics without a shit-ton of bloatware and spying crap.
This has been available since forever, though. Cyanogenmod/LineageOS was the biggest. Oneplus followed along and I love my OP15, though that’s coming to a bitter end
My pixel 7 broke but am still getting a OP15 becasue I can’t stand google shit anymore, even paid an $150 for it. I figure the hardware isnt going to get better and OP15 is probably the best its gonna get for a few years anyways.
Insane that google can sell such an inferior product for the same or greater price.
So sad that OP15 wont get a reboot. These phones are the last bit of the pre-surveillance era.
Cyanogenmod and LineageOS have always felt like hacks upon hacks and always had something broken. While I have my gripes with GOS it’s truly the first time since I have had a custom ROM that just works through and through.
Lineage pales in comparison to what cyanogenmod was
Having used both extensively, what? I’ve seen very little difference between the two, and if anything Lineage has become more refined and stable compared to Cyanogen over the years.
The CM theme manager alone was leagues better than anything Lineage is doing these days. CM enabled things like 720p recording on Nexus One, before the stock camera. Hacked in multitouch on devices that didn’t properly support it. Features like the camera flashlight we take for granted today. The notification shade quick menus. Hell the majority of the android UI/UX was pioneered on Cyanogenmod, it’s actually insane how much customizability and custom features that were available. Then it got gobbled up by AOSP and/or PixelOS and dumbed down for end users. Remember touchwiz? There’s a reason Cyanogen got picked up by Samsung. Their android builds are actually good now. To the point that I prefer a lot of their UX flows over stock. If you told me that in 2013 I would have laughed in your face.
I daily drove Lineage for 2 years and honestly couldn’t name a single feature it provided me other than root access and failing Google’s play integrity checks + breaking my tap to pay.
Lineage was forked from the remains of CM. Without Lineage, CM would have died and faded from memory already.
Lol, lineage did nothing to stop that
Sure. OxygenOS was also forked from Cyanogen, but OnePlus ended up adding their own UI and (opt-in) apps.
Where will you go after 1+?
I’m considering the new Motorola line, but I have no clue
bro trust me, its one more msg app, it is gonna solve everything, just one more bro
RCS is a protocol, not an app
Just one more protocol extension bro it’s gonna fix everything
Next thing they have to do is add support for realme, huawei and doogee phones or any phone running a certain version of google or having certain specs and letting users take the chance on installation and bricking. Rather than pixel phones only because this is shit not being able to use graphene.
Then tell those phones to meet their security standards.
Unlikely because they have very strict hardware requirements for security reasons. So far only Pixel phones had the required hardware. Motorola is planning to release some GrapheneOS phones in 2027, but they will be very expensive.
Except the 11.
Good. Everything Google touches needs to be forked.
Fork Google
We keep trying, but the courts are ok with monopolies.
They suddenly care about monopolies whenever a major competitor threatens to shift the balance of the market by providing alternatives…
fork it right out the ass
Go fork yourself
Goggle!
Lougle! If you get that reference lol
For those who got too excited by the title: read the original messages from the GrapheneOS. RCS de-facto is not an open technology, there’s a massive amount of work and multiple steps are needed to get anywhere near the proper independent implementation. It’s gonna be amazing if the GrapheneOS team pulls it off, but don’t get too excited about the release dates and its availability for other systems (e.g. Linux).
To be honest, I’d rather they use the effort elsewhere (as a very happy gOS user). The number of people on gOS who wouldn’t prefer Signal (without phone number rego) / Threema etc. is probably vanishingly small, but that takes going up against the incumbents with heavy resistance.
There’s only so many irons you can keep in the fire. That said, gOS devs (sans drama) are freaking awesome, and seems to keep growing in number, if they can pull it off it will be a true coup.
That’s true on one hand, but on the other there are also family and friends with who we still want/need to communicate via the “normies” protocols, and it’s better to do it without explicit spyware on your phone (aka Play Services or Whatsapp). So yeah, it’s an absolutely ungrateful work what they’re doing, but huge thanks to them for that.
It’ll be a while I’m sure, but I’m here for it 🙌🏾
What the fuck is RCS?
It’s the next gen sms, with features to bring it closer to parity with popular messaging apps
while still being horrible
Ok so RCS is basically WhatsApp/Signal but Google(+Carriers) but retarded:
- The client software is propiertary and screws you over when you e.g. root your phone
- They finally realized that E2EE exists - 10 years after everyone else implemented it
- You can’t view the docs unless you’re a Google Partner
- The protocol seems to be a mess
- You need a mobile data connection for it to work (sometimes not)
- Knowbody knows how the server software works or can be hosted, everything is “Google Jibe” or needs to connect to it to work
whatsApp […] But retarded
Huh? That’s literally a Meta platform… Doesn’t get much worse than that. I’d sooner just use SMS
AFAIK this is SMS… Well, they are using RCS to hijack it. So you start SMS conversation and if both parties have it enabled or will switch to their protocol. Kind of what iMessage does.
Yeah, I keep RCS disabled on my phone and preferably would replace it with another app, but didn’t know a good alternative.
What’s app is owned by Mark Zuckerberg and Meta.
- GOS will code a proprietary client, like Whatsapp? I doubt…
- It’s E2E with 3 ends, the 3rd one being Meta, like Whatsapp?
- There is no doc available, like Whatsapp?
- The server is as closed as one can be like Whatsapp?
Frankly, if one actor gets in RCS and gives me confidence it’s going to be secure and respect our privacy as much as can be, it’s GOS.
RCS might be below some other standards, but phone messaging is still a thing. GOS is not about idealistic massive adoption of Signal, it’s about what’s needed in the day-to-day life, but with privacy and security.What messaging service works without a data connection?
3G is shut down and 2G will follow soon.
What messaging service works without a data connection?
mobile data connection.
As opposed to wifi or the pigeons you linked.
I think it’s texts for people who don’t use Signal or WhatsApp, so… nobody I have ever met, I guess
I am suprised that it took this long to find someone that mentions how RCS will need to fight the network effect of pre existing IM apps thanks to no one using SMS in 2026 (for good reason, it is genuinely garbage and unsafe)
It is literally a standardized communication protocol. That is what iMessage is
iMessage is anything but a standardized protocol with crossplatform support
what did you drink? are you ok?
Huh, I just assumed it was built on the protocol but I guess not lol
it’s trying to extend the sms/mms system
Replace, not extend.
extend only, it will fallback to SMS, and guess what? who the fuck even uses SMS and MMS nowadays?
Isn’t that a possible reason why my my
e/OS/phone can’t send text messages, nor call, some numbers. (In France, where many people use meta shit like whatsapp and facebook messenger, and won’t be interested in another messenging app like signal, delta chat, etc)it is as convenient for the users as sms/mms, unlike signal/telegram/whatsapp
You’re correct. EU users didn’t adopt, or at least continue to utilize, SMS based messaging like users in the US did. This is not a problem for anyone using web based messaging like the ones you mentioned.
I’m quite surprised by the reaction this comment has received, are Americans genuinely still using SMS? Don’t they need to have group chats, send pictures, transfer files, make audio and video calls, or make use of encryption?
I don’t know for sure but my guess is that a lot of US users thought you were wrong because they don’t know that SMS / MMS is essentially dead in the EU. It’s still the primary text based communication method in the US.
MMS supports all the things you mentioned (albeit in a shittier way) except encryption. RCS adds a new layer that is more like Signal in that it supports encryption and emojis and a few other things but it is controlled by Google and there are no open source alternatives currently.
Sounds like you haven’t met anyone. Or more likely, it’s everyone not-you who is weird.
Sounds like you never have been to Europe…
I have and I’m not sure I get your point. I have an ability to understand how other people use technology. Which is aided by travel, not hindered by it.
Genuinely nobody I know has sent an SMS message for at least a decade, who are you still sending SMS to in this day and age when internet-based messengers exist?
Ever heard of older people or just less techy ones? Guess not. I always find it weird when people get on some high horse about sms or any other tech topic. By the way you talk, one would think you literally think hundreds of millions or more people don’t use a texting capability built-in to their phone. But you clearly don’t think that. You apparently just have a need to “other” people who do use it.
Ps. You live in a world where people still use fax machines, checks, floppy disks, and AOL over dialup. People use old tech. It’s not that crazy and much of it has to do with older people not liking change.
Look, I’m not trying to be a smartarse here, I’m genuinely interested in different ways people use technology. I am telling you that every person I know, regardless of age, defaults to using WhatsApp for communications; even my elderly relatives.
Ok, perhaps I misjudged you. For me, even younger people typically don’t use other messengers besides sms. I’ve only ever successfully gotten like 5 people to install signal. The other most popular messengers in the us, Facebook messenger and Whatsapp, are probably much worse for privacy than sms, due to meta ownership.
Yeah I’ve got about half of my friends and family using Signal, but when even a single one refuses then the whole group chat ends up staying in WhatsApp. WhatsApp does at least seem better than Facebook messenger though, as it allegedly implements the Signal protocol so should still be E2E encrypted. “Allegedly”, because it’s closed source and run by the trustworthy philanthropists as Facebook who I’m sure are data mining as much as they can from it, but I think people would have found out if it was a total lie. Still better than SMS though which may as well be public.
Where in the world are you? I speak for the UK when I talk about WhatsApp being the de-facto messenger. How do people do group chats or send files if they’re still using SMS?
sounds like you live in the land of the free, I mean the land of forced to use SMS becausd apple NPCs can’t be bothered to use a proper IM service
Very much needed.
This has been missing for yearsI switched away from e/OS for this very reason. As much as I hate SMS based communications it just isn’t practical to ditch them completely in the US. It’s simply too widespread.
you got only RCS available, no old school SMS? I was relieved I exited the Google’s RCS.
SMS/MMS was working but only with individual conversations. Any group messages would fail. RCS is supposed to fall back on MMS when some recipients can’t use RCS but something about the handshake was broken and it never would do that. I spent two months trying to sort it out and I never could.
I’ve been using JMP.chat/Cheogram for this personally
