I’ve seen multiple videos equivalent of Americans pointing where (country) is on the map, and there was an instance where the host asked the woman where the continent Africa is located (points to Asia) like WTF? That’s not even close at all.
I know there’s bias towards those types of videos since there are accusations of the host “handpicking” select strangers framing them as if they are representative of the US. But the truth is that their education system isn’t good as it lacks funding.
When you put it into perspective: how many Europeans can correctly locate & name countries adjacent to them within their own continent and globally? Is the education system within the EU that good or effective at teaching kids that subject?
When you put it into perspective: how many Europeans can correctly locate & name countries adjacent to them within their own continent and globally?
Practically all of them. Seriously.
I met some Italians who couldn’t name all the countries Italy borders. Seriously. It was shocking. I do think Italy has the worst public school system in the EU.
By land or by sea?
Either way.
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Yeah, but italy borders the balkans thats just impossible
?
If you hear, let’s say, Somalia, normally people would know it’s roughly somewhere east in Africa, Uruguay somewhere in South America etc.
I’ve traveled a lot and only from Americans I’ve heard them say about countries they’ve “never heard of it”. When I say I’m in Czechia, they just call it Chechnya, when I say I’m Dutch they love to mix that up with Denmark for some reason, etc.
Their excuse is always the same too: their school sucks. Dude, we didn’t learn this stuff in school neither. It’s common interest about the world around you, watching the news, etc. Half the countries you “don’t know” were bombed by you.
I think what also helps is that we have and value a lot of educational games and tv shows instead of mostly brainrot diversion.
Czechia is not surprising, as in NA it’s been generally called the Czech Republic since Czhechoslovakia split.
That was across the whole anglosphere. They - the czechs - have changed it recenty - no more than a few years ago.
10 years ago, actually. Some places in the English world are just slow on the uptake.
It’s been the short name since 1992 but the English speaking world didn’t really pick it up until the government started pushing for English speakers to finally use it in official documents
how many Europeans can correctly locate & name countries adjacent to them
Nearly all, seriously, because nearly all have been to some school for at least a few years.
@Zwuzelmaus @LtDan The fact that someone even posits this question really points out just how bereft many Americans are of an actual general education.
I still remember playing a game as a kid where I had to name all countries adjacent to mine (which are like 15 for Germany) and I got them all right.
Edit: ah no it was even more difficult. It was all countries adjacent to the Mediterranean Sea.
Most Americans always have had a shitty education, but the last few decades it really went down a toilet
Geography isn’t the only thing they’re bad at, it’s just a funny obvious one, especially when they need their point out the country they’re invading this time
And yes, pretty much all Europeans can point out heit neighbouring countries, most of them can pretty much point at any county on a map or a globe, because w received an education
Yes and no, I guess.
Theres some grade A morons in Europe as well. But I guess on the whole Europeans have better base education compared to the Americans. Doesn’t help that Americans keep speaking of “Europe” as a whole, while Europe speaks of multiple different European countries as individuals.
To be fair we usually do the same about Africa
But we do know the states, right? I remember my highschool friend not being alowed to go to a party unless she told her dad which states were neighbors of Burundi.
Yeah well. I can tell you if a country is in Africa or not, but I can maybe pin 20% of them with accuracy.
Quick fire quiz: Which of these are in Africa?
- Guinea
- Guyana
- Papua New Guinea
- Guinea-Bissau
- Equatorial Guinea
Trick question! All of these are made up!
Lol
“Europe is a TERRIBLE Country”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbtchT6Bt-k
I will say that I know all 50 US states and there’s really no reason why I should, as a European.
European education is incredible by comparison to the US. We only learn solid, liquid, gas, and maybe plasma.
My partner was telling me the other day about an American guy she saw on TikTok complaining that people from Europe don’t know enough about American geography.
I grew up in the UK in the '90s, where almost every cultural touchpoint was from the US. Cartoons, music, movies, it was all American. As a result I almost certainly know more US state capitals than I know European, and can confidently point out the locations of at least half of the US states on a map. Maybe even more.
But, like, why? Why do I need to know that shit? Why should I care?
I don’t know the names of any of the counties, or municipalities or whatever it is that subdivides France, and that’s the closest non-UK country to where I’m currently sitting. Hell, I don’t even know what they call those subdivisions.
So to answer the original question; fuck knows.
France has départements and régions, the first one being the smallest subdivision before cities, villages etc. Examples of regions are Brittany, burgundy, etc. Examples of department are Ile de France (Paris), bouches du Rhône, Corsica.
Manythank.
I grew up in the UK in the '90s, […] it was all American.
So it is in fact Great Britain and not Greenland that should belong to Usa. Has he just mixed up the names of two islands with a G?
/s
Yes.
While you are likely still correct, citing a survey from 2002 does not work in favor of your point
It probably got worse by now
Like you mentioned, many of those videos are doctored to make common Americans look stupid. I would even venture a guess and say that some of them are straight up fake with people probably being paid to act as stupid as possible.
As for Europeans’ ability to place countries on a map, I believe it varies in the same way it does in America. Some will be super sharp at it, others, probably most, will know some and then blank on the rest. Few will be entirely ignorant about geography.
I have a flags of the world app that I use once in awhile to train myself to recognize flags from different countries. There is an option to also try and place flags on the map and you work your way through one continent at the time. I absolutely fucking suck at placing flags in Africa and Polynesia. I have gotten to a point where I recognize most of their flags, so there is that, but I am still hopeless with the map part. I have a few blind spots in Asia and South America too. I am pretty strong with Europe, the Middle East and Central Asia at this point.
For me, I started practicing with the app years ago exactly because I realized how terrible my geography skills were even inside Europe. Later on it became a matter of rebellion when the Ukrainian war went into full swing and I wanted to give a big fuck you to the invisible wall that still stands between western and eastern Europe. Many people I know have always been geographically blind to eastern Europe, but that seems to be something many of us have worked on in recent years.
Now it is just a longterm goal for me to take some time once in awhile to practice. Can’t hurt to learn some basic bitch geography.
Ironically, the one thing I’m worse at placing than African countries, is American States, but they also aren’t a part of my flag app, so I haven’t actually practiced them. Similarly haven’t practiced the German States since I was in 7th grade so I only know a couple of those and blank on the rest.
There’s an old series of videos by Rick Mercer of Canada that does some similar cherry-picking of US residents responding to questions. They’re all done as a joke (Rick Mercer is a comedian) but they’re a surprising amount of accuracy to them. Mercer even interviews some US politicians in it and gets them to say some ridiculous things about Canada that show their lack of knowledge on foreign matters.
The US education is well-documented as an ineffective system but it’s not homogeneous across the country so I don’t think anyone would be correct to make any broadly-sweeping claims about how knowledgeable US residents are. Just know that some of them aren’t very bright and some of them are politicians.
You have to also factor in that culturally, America hates smart people. A politician who is knowledgeable about those things would be less likely to get votes, a lot of them are smart people who play dumb because they know dumb wins votes. A lot of politicians were viewed negatively and their opponents attacked them for being informed and knowledgeable people, and it worked very well. John Kerry is an excellent example of a politician who is incredibly smart and capable, but got politically destroyed for it.
Even Trump is way smarter in person by most accounts. But his public person is dumb as rocks because that’s what voters love, because our voters HATE anyone who seems smarter than them. It makes them feel condescended to.
Personally, I deal with the same thing. Say stupid dumb shit, and people like you. Say something smart and informed, they tend to dislike you. And I have known a lot of smart people who refuse to show their intelligence in most social settings because they know people won’t like them if they do.
There are very few environments where being intelligent and informed is generally rewarded. Usually only in the context of school and work, and often in higher-income/education communities, which are far and few.
People who only ever think within their country and, related to that, don’t know any geography beyond their borders exist everywhere. Hell, that’s the majority of the world. You just don’t see their gaps in world knowledge in the English-speaking world, because, well, they don’t speak English. And in my opinion, as long as you don’t have any responsibility towards the world, it shouldn’t be reprehensible to be ignorant towards the world.
However, I can imagine that the average European has a higher minimum knowledge about world geography than the the average American. And I think the biggest reason for that is the worldwide reach of US mainstream media. In European countries you passively get more exposure to the rest of the world - especially US music, movies, etc., but not only that. E.g. football fans will at least hear about countries and cities all around the world. The US media on the other hand, although it is definitely widening, is still much more egocentric, again, especially because they are the mainstream.
I think it has to do with the size of the USA. People care and learn about their immediate neighbors. European countries have many neighbors while the USA has two. Moreover, depending where you are in the US, your nearest neighbor might be 1,000 miles away. So as Americans it makes more sense for us to learn about our neighboring states (where we will more likely be traveling).
Europeans learn about countries all around the world, though, not just European ones. States, their capitals, physical geography, natural resources, production and export, a bit of etnography, culture and anything noteworthy. Not everything sticks with everyone, of course, but people here do get quite a good basic overview.
Is this not taught in the US?
Well, I can point out all the continents and most countries on a map (approximately), even subdivisions (states etc.) in many western countries. But anecdotal evidence doesn’t really help that much for this question, IMO. Just go look up some statistics.
How many Europeans can point out Kansas on a map? I’d bet I could find just as many Europeans ignorant of North American geography as they find Americans ignorant of European geography, especially since, as you point out, they cherry pick the most ignorant sounding responses.
Kansas, a state, is not the equivalent of Africa, A continent as pointed out by OP.
OTOH, EU education varies w I d e l y and the American system is overall mediocre
I would say Kansas as an American is roughly equivalent to a European country to a European. South America would be the equivalent of Africa, and while I agree that everyone should be able to name the continents, I’m very confident that I could find a European who could not point out South America if I cherry picked enough. I bet I’d get someone pointing to Mexico eventually.
What a weird thing to say. You think finding Kansas on a map is equal to finding france on a map?
I think judging Americans for not knowing your local geography is pretty stupid, and I think judging Europeans for not knowing our local geography is also stupid, so in that sense yes, I think they’re equal.
Finding Kansas is equivalent to finding Thüringen, Graubünden or Bourgogne-Franche-Comté.
Kansas is 5 times the size of Switzerland, comparing it to a small region of Switzerland isn’t exactly the same resolution, is it?
Who gives a shit how large it is? Size doesn’t make it a country.
Kansas is 5 times the size of Switzerland,
But the people of Switzerland are 5 times more educated. :)
The thing is most Europeans know your local geography. They know which continent, the part of it is the US and where and what (mostly) your capitol is.
Being able to point out the US on a map is like pointing out Russia. You can just throw a dart in the general right direction and you have a pretty good chance of hitting it just because of how absurdly large it is. Even if all you know is the continent and nothing else, you have more or less a 1 in 3 chance if you just guess a random spot. Calling the location of the country in North America and the general location of the capital “knowing our local geography” is like me claiming to know European geography (which I certainly don’t) just because I can point to Russia, Italy, England and a few other rather distinct locations.
Oh it’s about size you mean? What is is a reasonable size for you to learn where a country is? And I mean, can you even name all the countries in, say Europe, without putting them on a map?
Funny thing about Russia. It’s mostly in Asia so I mean you’re technically correct but 🤷
Maybe not Kansas, but I could see an argument for California. Kansas is more Bosnia or Albania.
Actually, unironocally, kind of? Like, maybe not equating those two examples specifically, but even just looking at the EU, not even all of Europe. There are 27 countries in the EU, and 50 states in the USA. I doubt the average American (USA) would be able to name and/or label all 27 countries in the EU, but would the average citizen of the EU be able to name and/or label 27+ states in the USA? I don’t know, I don’t know what the education system is like, but I doubt it. And while yes, a state is not the same as a country, just from the land mass and population counts, the comparison isn’t too far off.
Yeah, the education in the USA sucks. It is definitely sub-par to many other countries, and definitely lacks in “worldly” knowledge. Part of that is because of lack of funding and prioritizing education. Part of it is from lack of prioritizing foreign affairs and history in the average curriculum. But part of it is also from lack of proximity. An EU citizen learning about European history makes sense. How much do EU citizens learn about the history of China and its provinces? About African countries, their conflicts and politics, and histories?
So yeah, being able to find France on the map might be equivalent to finding Kansas, but it certainly is equivalent to finding Texas or California.
How much do EU citizens learn about the history of China and its provinces? About African countries, their conflicts and politics, and histories?
Except we’re talking about the USA, you know, a country created just yesterday by Europeans. Let’s not equate this with knowing who was emperor of China 3000 BC.
Who said anything about ancient history? Let’s just look at the last 200 years and see how much there is to know, or not know about those areas. Not to say anything about indiginous peoples. And geography related information? How does that have anything to do with 3000BC? I’m not saying the breadth of the history of the United States is anything compared to European or Asian histories, but unless you were alive for all of that your personal experience with recent history is just the same.
To be fair… My state, Oregon, is roughly 45% the size of France, 3x the size of Ireland and 6x the size of the Netherlands. And some states are much bigger than that.
Now I won’t argue Oregon is as culturally relevant as France to the world. But since we’re talking about geography, ignoring the subdivisions of the US and Canada means you are leaving some pretty fucking BIG gaps in your knowledge of the map.
A shocking number of Europeans seem to think that California is the entire US West Coast, despite the region being about the size of Scandinavia, culturally significant, and one of the largest economies on Earth.
So, I don’t think knowing states is equivalent to knowing regions of France. That’s a much finer level of detail.
France has about 15 times the population. The Netherlands has more than double. Even Ireland has more. So why not focus on that?
Size has nothing to do with anything. The only metric that counts is whether or not it is a country.
And Oregon is not a country.
Geography (the topic of this thread) isn’t primarily about people, it’s about land.
Plus, even if you did sort by population, there’d be states like California, Texas, Florida and New York that have a higher population and a larger economy than some European countries.
The point remaining that if you see the entire US as a monolith, then you’re really not as good at geography as you think. Certainly not good enough to be impressive.
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I’m very confident that I could find a European who could not point out South America if I cherry picked enough
I’m sure you are very confident.
Rick Mercer got criticized for his “Talking to Americans” running gag on CBC for cherry picking, so he went onto the Harvard quad and got the same results from Harvard professors.
That was specifically a response to the point that someone thought Asia was Africa. I doubt Harvard professors are making that mistake.
I’m pretty sure most people outside of the USA would fail to point to Kansas on a map. That’s roughly equivalent to asking for someone to point to Brittany (administrative region of France). Just like I’m sure most people outside of Canada would struggle to locate Nova Scotia on a map. Heck even I sometimes mix up where New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are and I grew up in Canada. Administrative regions really aren’t relevant outside of their own country, but country borders are relevant internationally.
I do wonder how much North American geography the average US resident knows though. Like how (part of) France is part of NA or which island(s) is for which Caribbean country.
So many opportunities to cherry-pick funny and wild answers.
That’s more or less my point. Americans learn (or less m at least did when I was in school) where all 50 states are, as well as nearby countries. We didn’t cover European, African or Asian geography in depth just like Europeans don’t cover North and South American geography in depth (from what I understand).
So what depth are we talking about?
Why on earth would anyone outside the US be expected to know US administrative regions? This is not even remotely the same thing. Can you point out the canton of Schaffhausen?
And I mean, depending on how you count, North America has like 3 states, not much to learn there.
Europeans do learn the location of the states at school though. It might not stick with everyone, but we are expected to know it.
Might be differences between countries. In my school it was ‘optional’ if you were done with the regular geography.
How many Europeans can point out Kansas on a map?
What does that have to do with anything? OP was talking about world and Euro-adjacent areas, not ‘can Americans identify Euro nations the same way Euros can identify the states of the USA?’
Regardless, it seems to me perfectly natural for people living in a hodge-podge of cultures & nations to be more knowledgeable about their surroundings and even world geography than Americans, which is more isolated on various levels. Not to mention, commonly filled with a level of exceptionalism.
Kansas is as close to Americans geographically as European countries are to Europeans. Asking Americans to be as familiar with European geography as Europeans is the equivalent to asking Europeans to be familiar with us states.
Not really. States have natural variance in culture and features, but Euro nations are vastly more diverse and worth knowing about. They go back to the ancient world in importance, and some of them had a huge impact in what the modern map & modern world looks like.
American states are largely irrelevant by comparison. There are very few reasons for people around the world to know anything about Kansas in particular, compared to one of the Euro colonial powers, plus Greece or Italy, etc.
There it is…the arrogance. We"re old we matter. You’re young you dont. How quickly everyone forgets.
Not sure what you’re talking about, but on the surface it looks like you’re trying to jam a square peg through a round hole. Good luck with that…
Your arrogance is preventing your understanding
Sure, but there’s different levels of geographical knowledge in education. Local geography is a few years before in depth world geography. You seem to be ignoring that your local geography is worlds geography to Americans, so if you’re using geography as a basis for judging education, at least compare apples to apples. I’ll readily admit that most Americans are ignorant of European geography, just like I’d bet plenty of Europeans can’t point out countries in South America.
You seem to be ignoring that your local geography is worlds geography to Americans…
What do you mean “my local geography?” What are you even trying to say, here?
I mean whatever geography is local to you, assuming you aren’t in America.
Alright. Well for me, there’s no question that (going to the OP) Euros have a better grasp of World geography than Americans do, for various good reasons already stated.
On top of that, I see a long thread of what is essentially mental illness running through American history, leading its citizens to believe that they’re special and/or live in a special land, promoting a sort of intentional ignorance about the world around them. Geography is part of that, but it’s much more, such as a cultural and historical isolation.
Indeed, as Ken Burns said (paraphrasing) “Americans are shockingly ignorant of their own history and narrative.” It is an embarrassing truth that, the longer I live, the more relentlessly confirmed and depressing it is to me.
It’s all very nauseating to me, frankly, especially seeing as what it led to in the end. Anyway, I’ll be withdrawing myself from this convo at this point. Good luck to you.
Perhaps it would be better to try to compare European and US knowledge of Africa - that’s neutral ground.
I’d argue (and have) that South America would be the equivalent to Africa (that is to say, a neighboring continent). If the original post had just said “Do Europeans have better geographical knowledge than Americans?” I’d not have objected, to be clear; the objection is to the basis for that statement being these videos making Americans look stupid for not knowing European geography. That’s just stupid.
Kansas is about as different from other US states as Bavaria is from other German states. And Bavaria’s population is over four times bigger, too.
Most European countries have their own language, army (+ foreign policy separate from the EU), political system and often currency. US states have none of those.
They’re more diverse, no question there, but that’s for nothing to do with memorized lines on a map, which is what we’re talking about, I thought?
What lines? Because there are no lines inside the USA when looking at a world map.
I can’t help but wonder if this whole argument is related to the fact that many US-based maps and globes tend to show the outlines of each US state as well. It confused the hell out of me as a kid. I’d see each state outlined and colored differently on maps, and think that the countries in Europe or Africa were also states. When my parents pointed out that no, those are countries, I’d ask why the US states were shown the same way, but other countries didn’t show their states (or equivalent boundaries.) Never did get a good answer.
Someone growing up seeing their states depicted equally to how other countries are depicted, on the same map, could easily think the differences are equally important between US states as between countries. If you grow up being told your country is the best in the world, and even globes make a point to show how important your different states in particular are, it’s not surprising that someone could come away thinking the differences between Arkansas and Michigan are just as important as the differences between Finland and Bulgaria.
Do other countries have their own maps/globes that highlight only their own states/provinces/etc. but not the subdivided territories for other countries?
I’m really not sure if this is just folks not understanding that there’s differences in how things are taught between countries, or if it’s just willful ignorance.
My only familiarity with European school systems is what I’ve been told, so you can feel free to correct me if this is incorrect, but my understanding is that at the same grade level where Europeans are learning the European countries, Americans are learning the US states. It’s even roughly the same number of data points to learn. Just because the map you selected doesn’t show these particular lines on the map does not mean they don’t exist, and US states are, purely in terms of land area and population, about equivalent to European countries.
To head off the objection before it comes, we also learn the counties and important cities in our own states, which would be the equivalent of learning subdivisions of European countries.
Europeans are learning the European countries, Americans are learning the US states.
This is the thing. I had the differences in our education explained to me as in Europe we get shallow knowledge on a broad spectrum while in the US you get deep knowledge on a narrow spectrum. So we learn about others, you learn about you. 😄
And to add to that, of course we learn about our own regions and communes additionally.
We simply define “us” and “others” differently. You can kind of think of the US like the EU, and the states as the individual member countries; they’re not too dissimilar, except that the federal government has more power than the EU as a whole does. Our state divisions are (to us) equivalent to the country divisions in the EU. Each has its own population, its own laws, its own governing body, its own culture. States don’t have particularly much in common with each other in many cases. Even very close by states - take Maine and Massachusetts for example (two states I’ve lived in, and can therefore comment on). Very different vibe between the two; very distinctly different accents, different mannerisms, different customs. They each have stereotypes about the other. ‘Masshole’ is a slur that’s not too uncommon to hear in Maine, usually referring to drivers from Massachusetts who’re visiting.
Europeans (broadly speaking, based on the comments in this thread specifically) seem to think state lines are fairly arbitrary but it’s definitely not the case. I’m not sure why you (seem to) feel that learning about other states is somehow “lesser” than learning about other countries in the EU or Europe as a whole. The US covers a land area more than twice as large as the EU, and has just under twice as many states as the EU has countries. The US population is about 75% of the population of the entire EU. Somehow, though, learning about that is treated (in this thread) like Germans learning about Germany to the exclusion of all else.
You can kind of think of the US like the EU
Absolutely not. You can make a comparison with other federations like Germany or Switzerland maybe, but the EU is a very different political entity.
Very different vibe between the two; very distinctly different accents, different mannerisms, different customs. They each have stereotypes about the other.
This is true in all European countries as well, no matter how tiny.
I’m not sure why you (seem to) feel that learning about other states is somehow “lesser” than learning about other countries
See, this is what you seem to miss. We learn about other countries. We learn about yours as well, but not on a much deeper scale than where it is, its capitol and its political system. And well, it seems like some in Europe learn about your states as well, which is more than we do for other countries. I couldn’t name more than a couple of ‘states’ in my neighbouring countries and that I have learned as an adult.
I don’t understand why you seem to think that size and population somehow would grant you extra interest. If that was the case India, Russia, Canada and China would all be more interesting than the US and we don’t give those extra attention.
OP asked about continents and countries, US states are neither. IMO, it’s about how relevant the entity is - US states simply aren’t as important as countries.
And I bet most Europeans can name and roughly locate more US states than most USians can name and roughly locate European states, anyway.
States are more important to Americans than European countries are, when it comes to knowing where things are, because Americans interact with other states with the same regularity that Europeans interact with other countries. The point that I’m trying to make, which seems to be being largely ignored, is that comparing American knowledge of European geography to European knowledge of European geography is just as disingenuous a comparison as comparing European knowledge of US states to American knowledge of US states.
The problem is that you’re bringing fort that point by making a terrible comparison. This is about countries which US states are not.
A better comparison would have been that Americans have better knowledge about the Caribbean islands than Europe and that Europeans does the opposite.
See, I don’t think that that distinction is nearly as important as you do. It’s more about the number of things to name in a given area. Expecting Americans to know all 50 US states is roughly equivalent to expecting Europeans to know all ~50(ish?) European countries. The distinction between states is far more important to our day to day lives than anything in Europe is.
The distinction between states is far more important to our day to day lives than anything in Europe is.
You hit the nail on the head there mate.
By confusing Kansas with countries you’re not helping your case…
But why do I need to point out Kansas on a map? I live in Hampshire (the original one), could you point that out?
You don’t, in the same sense that someone from the US doesn’t need to be able to point out Austria on a map.
Find one US citizen that can find Extremadura, Lyon or Sicily in a map.
As a European I can find Sicily, and maybe Lyon but that’s only because I’ve been there. I think you made the first one up
West of Spain, just between Madrid and Lisbon.
A good neutral comparison is seeing if an EU or American person can point out different provinces in China. The answer is almost assuredly no, so we are all equally ignorant I suppose. 🤷♂️
Countries, not regions within a country
Whats so special about being a country if you have less than 0.1% of the population of a chinese province?
Whats so special about being a country if you have less chip-creation machines machines than the Netherlands?
Exactly, nothing!
Hahaha wow, that was an interesting take. Population is what matters? Well, Israel have nukes for example?
Population matters when its about a significant portion of the entire species
What?
IMO China is an outlier because the language barrier is much thicker than for most other polities. It’s substantially harder to remember a place if the (romanized) name looks like word salad and many or even most of the sounds in it don’t even exist in your language. Contrast Japan - while the romanized names still look very foreign, they can be pronounced with relative ease (even if not quite correctly).
That said, I generally don’t make a point of remembering internal subdivisions of other countries. It’s just not as important as knowing where countries are, and internal regions (e.g. “midwest USA” or “frankophone Switzerland”) that actually do have significance often don’t really follow administrative divisions.
