Not closeted people, just those in denial. If you’re in the closet, that means you’re scared of coming out, whereas someone who’s in denial has some unhealthy reason to want to not be gay that leads them to hate that part of themselves.
They are not being attacked for being gay. They are specifically attacked for being homophobic.
TERFS are also not being attacked for being women, nor is attacking TERFS an attack against all women either.
Attacking someone who’s bi or homosexual in denial and overcompensating that with hatred says absolutely nothing about gay people as a whole, or implies in any way that being gay is problematic.
And to be completely honest here, it feels kinda presumptuous the way this is being argued. Almost like it shouldn’t be allowed to criticise someone gay for any reason at all. Queer people are a very diverse group of people and obviously we have assholes, too. It’s not doing anyone a favor if we act like that’s impossible.
No, it’s about the misunderstanding that it might be meant this way. I don’t think most commenters here are actually homophobic.
But look, obviously I can’t know for sure how other people mean it when they say it, but I can when I’m the one talking.
I’m bisexual. Bisexuality is a normal and beautiful part of the spectrum of human sexuality, and anyone who has something against it is a certified moron.
I personally think that many homophobic people are bisexual (or gay) and in horrible, hateful denial.
I don’t think their queerness is to blame, but specifically their harmful behavior. I don’t think their queerness is the reason either, but nothing but good old sexism and heteronormativity. I still think that their queerness is part of an explanation, since it leads them to this horrible internal misunderstanding that sexuality is a choice. I don’t think all homophobes are queer, obviously some are straight, but I think it’s a significant portion of the most spiteful and publicly active ones. And again, them being (allegedly) queer is not what’s problematic about them in the slightest. It’s their homophobic behaviour.
I’ve yet to see an example of someone who actually blames homosexuality or the queer community for homophobia in this argument, just people claiming that this is what’s somehow happening.
I just wish there was a clean way to diss them for weaponising their self-hatred. If you think of a really pithy insult for people who externalise their negative feelings, please share with the rest of us, it’s badly needed.
But if there were a slur for hypocrites that word would by definition be attacking them for their behavior since hypocrisy is a behavioral choice and not an element of personal identity.
I’ve actually heard “coon” from a black leftist to refer to black conservatives who try to protect themselves by being “one of the good ones” in the eyes of right-wing racists. The term isn’t something I’m comfortable using myself as a white person, but I don’t think it’s problematic or racist because it’s directed at their harmful behavior and not their skin color.
Nah, openly gay homosexuals aren’t bigoted, it’s only the ones in denial.
Exactly.
It’s not accusing the being gay of fucking them up, it’s accusing the unhealthy repression.
Gay people in denial are still gay though. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be in denial
Well said.
oh so much better, it’s just closeted people that are acceptable targets!
Not closeted people, just those in denial. If you’re in the closet, that means you’re scared of coming out, whereas someone who’s in denial has some unhealthy reason to want to not be gay that leads them to hate that part of themselves.
ahh, so much better
How about we just attack homophobic people for being homophobic, instead of using gay as an insult in a roundabout way of calling them a hypocrite?
As a queer person I never understood this
They are not being attacked for being gay. They are specifically attacked for being homophobic.
TERFS are also not being attacked for being women, nor is attacking TERFS an attack against all women either.
Attacking someone who’s bi or homosexual in denial and overcompensating that with hatred says absolutely nothing about gay people as a whole, or implies in any way that being gay is problematic.
And to be completely honest here, it feels kinda presumptuous the way this is being argued. Almost like it shouldn’t be allowed to criticise someone gay for any reason at all. Queer people are a very diverse group of people and obviously we have assholes, too. It’s not doing anyone a favor if we act like that’s impossible.
No, they are attacked for (assumingly) being gay
Maybe you and I are having different conversations then. I’ve never experienced it being taken this way.
But you have, that’s what the entire discussion is about.
No, it’s about the misunderstanding that it might be meant this way. I don’t think most commenters here are actually homophobic.
But look, obviously I can’t know for sure how other people mean it when they say it, but I can when I’m the one talking.
I’m bisexual. Bisexuality is a normal and beautiful part of the spectrum of human sexuality, and anyone who has something against it is a certified moron.
I personally think that many homophobic people are bisexual (or gay) and in horrible, hateful denial.
I don’t think their queerness is to blame, but specifically their harmful behavior. I don’t think their queerness is the reason either, but nothing but good old sexism and heteronormativity. I still think that their queerness is part of an explanation, since it leads them to this horrible internal misunderstanding that sexuality is a choice. I don’t think all homophobes are queer, obviously some are straight, but I think it’s a significant portion of the most spiteful and publicly active ones. And again, them being (allegedly) queer is not what’s problematic about them in the slightest. It’s their homophobic behaviour.
I’ve yet to see an example of someone who actually blames homosexuality or the queer community for homophobia in this argument, just people claiming that this is what’s somehow happening.
I just wish there was a clean way to diss them for weaponising their self-hatred. If you think of a really pithy insult for people who externalise their negative feelings, please share with the rest of us, it’s badly needed.
But it’s also just regular hatred, same reason you can’t call racist people the N word.
Even if there was a slur for hypocrites, that’s still just an ad hominem instead of attacking them for their behavior (the actual problem)
But if there were a slur for hypocrites that word would by definition be attacking them for their behavior since hypocrisy is a behavioral choice and not an element of personal identity.
I’ve actually heard “coon” from a black leftist to refer to black conservatives who try to protect themselves by being “one of the good ones” in the eyes of right-wing racists. The term isn’t something I’m comfortable using myself as a white person, but I don’t think it’s problematic or racist because it’s directed at their harmful behavior and not their skin color.
I don’t know what comment you meant to reply to, but I was pretty specifically talking about attacking people for what they do.
There’s a lot of overlap