This is a difficult read for me. Much of it reminds me strongly of how trans men and transmasc nonbinary people have, in the past, engaged in transmisgyny against my sisters and me. Some passages read directly like the emotional, psychological and gendertheoretical foundation for how they have practiced silencing and ostracism against us out of a sense of “not all men” fragile masculinity. That “not all men” is disavowed halfheartedly at one point does not change that.

I will go over each of these problematic parts individually to highlight how pervasive that ice-cold undercurrent is in the text. Note that i am not doing this to attack the author, but to engage in good faith with somebody who has a drastically different relation to doing gender than myself.

I found the argument that my dysphoria was rooted in internalized misogyny—and contrary to my interests as a feminist and “woman”—to be particularly compelling.

For those not in the know, “your dysphoria as a transmasculine person is internalized misogyny” is dyed in the wool TERF reasoning. Telling trans people that our dysphoria is actually something else that is entirely not trans related is textbook transphobia and a red flag for when gatekeeping begins to border conversion therapy or sending somebody on the “AFAB only” to detransitioner pipeline. This person has, knowingly or not, spent a significant amount of time in T(W)ERF-influenced tumblr millieus and has soaked something up there.

So while I had said very little to my therapist about my transness to begin with, I soon decided to explain to her how, ultimately, who you are has to do with how you’re classed socially, not how you identify.

And here we immediately have the next point of TERFism, questioning the concept of gender identity as a seperate dimension of gender unrelated to gender as a dimension of class, biological labeling or performative acts.

In response to radical feminism’s legacy of abuse toward trans women, some feminist women (cis and trans) have developed a “trans-inclusive” politics oriented toward encompassing trans women in a fundamentally binary “sex class” framework. In the new radical feminism, much like the old, women (including trans women) constitute a class exploited by men (including trans men).

Now it is already seguing into a stance against transfeminism, including the completely false claim that transfeminism is, somehow, fundamentally a binary framework. The red flags keep piling up and we still haven’t arrived at the meat of the article.

But this framework puts transmasculine people at a really painful crossroads: Do we transition and self-actualize, with the knowledge that doing so will render us complicit in the oppression of our sisters, the same oppression we’ve experienced all our lives? Or do we force ourselves to live as women (or else non-men of a different sort, though this ideology leaves little space to conceptualize nonbinariness), repressing the parts of us that call toward a transition away from womanhood and/or into maleness?

False dichotomy. No transfeminist has ever claimed that transmasculine people should not transition, but that their transition will open up (often highly conditional) male privilege that they have to reckon with if they want to be allies to their sisters. Deeply dishonest framing. Yuck. Ew.

To “trans-inclusive” radical feminists, however, trans men have actually crossed class lines—or else have always been men (and therefore class enemies), a fact that is retroactively revealed upon transition.

In spite of how this person frames it, it is an extremely common stance among trans people of all genders that we have, since birth, always been our gender and have simply not understood this before our cracking. I understand that they perceive their biography in different ways, and that’s perfectly valid, but what is really fucking problematic is this constant devaluation of the lived experiences of trans people like me who know that we have never been our AGAB.

This is especially alarming because the deep-seated belief that we all have once been our AGAB is common in transmedicalist environments. It is extremely sus to generalize such claims to all trans people.

In reality, the experiences typically called “male” or “female” socialization are both individually and culturally variant, and do not serve as direct opposites of each other.

“Male and female socialization” is a TERFy reskinning of gender essentialism. Not beating the “i have supermassive brainworms from hanging out with tumblr transmisogynists” allegations again.

It feels risky to reference Tumblr as an influential source of trans thought, as though doing so lends credence to the reactionary stereotyping of trans people as inherently childish and politically unserious. And yet the theory developed on that platform—through collaboration, argument, and reflection on personal experience—continues to inform my work and how I conceive of myself years after finally logging off. The collective knowledge we created there, for better or for worse, still remains

Who would have guessed.

The assumption that masculinity necessarily means freedom from gender oppression ignores how race/ism is always gendered, and in particular how Black masculine people are gendered as inherently dangerous (and targeted for anti-Black violence on the basis of that “danger”).

Immediately after a paragraph about the literal textbook case of misogynoir, they implicitly deny that misoginoir exists and imply that black men are opressed more than black women, another classic of tumblr transmisogyny. Seriously, wtf have you dragged in, OP?

While liberal feminisms prefer to draw a distinction between “healthy” and “toxic” masculinities, a sex-class-oriented approach necessitates treating all maleness as at least suspect, purely by nature of the class relation

This is how you disavow responsibility for perpetuating patriarchy. Yey, you fucking idiot, when you transition into manhood or at least something inherently enmeshed with it, you have to reflect critically on your masculinity, just as white people have to reflect critically on our position in a white supremacist society and citizens of the imperial core have to reflect on our relation to imperial hyperexploitation. You cannot handwave that away because it inconveniences you.

I did not find the call to be a “good man” particularly compelling, at least as a solution to patriarchy. And yet, the call to be a man—of any sort—remained.

Really telling on yourself there, you know that?

Edit: Here’s the rest of this shitshow. What a load of tripe.

The article’s conclusion—the part I found so transformative—was an endorsement of unitary theory: the belief that patriarchy and capitalism (along with race, disability, and other forms of social domination) constitute one complex social order, rather than separate systems that at points overlap.

Hard disagree. Patriarchy has existed continuously for thousands of years before capitalism. Capitalism has not invented patriarchy, it has inherited and transformed it.

Secondly, unitary theory redefined the terms of gender oppression in a way that places the ultimate blame on the bourgeoisie (a group that I, in my entry-level research job, definitely do not belong to, with none of the grey area associated with my maleness).

How super fucking convenient. It’s not my fault i’m a smol bean uWu, it’s just the bourgeoisie that does the bad patriarchy thing. Fuck this dude.

I now understand the ways in which working-class men benefit from oppressing women as analogous to the ways in which scabs benefit from strikebreaking. The gains are undoubtedly real on an individual level but are not representative of workers’ ultimate class interest in either scenario. This allows for meaningful solidarity across gender lines.

I doubt this person has solidarity across gender lines if i’m the one across these gender lines.

Obviously, holding this belief has been deeply unsettling to my conception of feminism—and there’s still a part of me that worries it’s wrong of me to displace total responsibility for patriarchy onto a class I’m conveniently not a part of.

Wow, once more almost getting it. Sorry, this ain’t it, chief.

I refuse to look at the comments for my mental health. I’ve spent my life being told my existence is wrong. I don’t need to see transphobia (that is what it is no matter how you dress it up) by fellow trans people and Communists. As a genderfluid butch I have gotten shit from everyone.

But because I know its important I want to share my experiences.

I have been beaten and physically harrased by men and women.

In high school I was chased down and attempted to force make up on me by girls.

Guys didn’t know what to do with me and I would often get harrased a lot that way. Books slammed near my head. Etc

Girls slammed my head on the side of the bus so hard it knocked my tooth out.

What I wore has constantly been made fun of. Even if I did wear girl clothes or make up it wasn’t the right kind or correct way.

Dad was constantly on my case. I was white trash for wearing the same clothes as him at home. I was to fat. Etc

I could go on. All of these experiences had to do with my egg ass being GNC.

Toxic Masculinity exists but so does Femininity. Any time you do something to adhear to the system not because you want to but because you are “supposed to” is part of it. (Of course safety is a issue that doesn’t count) There are many women out there who do things or don’t do things because they are trying go up hold this idea of white patriarchal idea of beauty. I know because they will just tell you that. “Yeah I wish I didn’t have to do this, but women have to”. Like it really sucks honestly. I’ll see my wife doing her nails or wearing a skirt and it makes me happy because it genuinely brings her joy. And she doesn’t wear make up, because she doesn’t want to. That’s awesome. That’s how it should be.

I bring this up because its not really talked about in the lens of the patriarchy. Honestly there is a lot to be discussed about the intersection of it all. Sadly we are often stuck in very rudimentary concepts.

I have had trans people look me in the face and tell me its easier for me or that masculinity in women is celebrated despite the hell I grew up with. In reality I’m accepted no where and get hate by everyone. I am not a women and I am not a man but I am and I am neither.

What is masculinity to me outside of the toxic? Its quiet contemplation. Its no mess clothes that are comfy. Bring the one to encourage my friends. Finding a balance between “strong” and "emotional’. Its feeling my anger but putting it aside. If I’m honest without knowing I’ve always saw Ashitaka from Mononoke as a role model. Its about inner strength. Comfort in existance.

I’ll end this scatter shot of points by saying this. Which I think is so important for understanding trans liberation that so many people fail to grasp.

What is good for the daisy is poison for the cactus.

Liberation for me means no make up. While make up to someone else is the most important thing. Both are true and don’t contradict each other. Life is wonderful and complicated like that.

good on ya for posting this. this site’s got a serious lack of intersectional analysis sometimes, which seems to me to be rooted in an individualistic moralism & desire for a feeling of sanctimonious superiority that shortcuts people out of examining their own reactionary brainworms and internalized oppressive beliefs.

lot of people on here could stand to look inward and accept that we’re all shaped by hegemonic, reactionary hierarchies that are soaked in violence, so we all have work to do in that way. but! since that’s a universal condition none of us chose, that also means that - if people can grow to trust each other to approach the process in good faith to a reasonable degree -  it can be a positive, healing process undertaken collaboratively (albeit not a painless or frictionless one).

i do think the majority of that hard, contradiction-laden work would be done offline, in structures built by the working class. pretty jaded on online spaces in general & don’t have the energy for a struggle sesh today, so gonna do the 2-cents-and-dip

Not necessarily, but I do think its important as Marxists to comprehend that men and women currently have material differences in our gender hierarchical society and that the benefactors of a material difference can have their perceptions of the world warped. This is why one’s occupation often informs one’s ideology. I’ve met many trans men who have started radical because they were very obviously queer in appearance and worked manual labor. But over time, the testosterone did its work and they advanced in the corporate ladder. I refuse to talk to these people now because they have essentially become the average older male which in America is obviously not a good look. Its possible that this can happen to anyone here, you can have a massive change in standard of living and the conditions in your life and that will inform your ideology in some way. I think being cognizant of this helps a little, but there’s a reason that America hasn’t succumbed to revolution yet and it lies in the fact that many people in America are too comfortable.

Giving men an excuse to refuse to examine toxic behaviors (e.g. “I can’t help it, it’s in my nature!”)

Saying things like “masculinity/men is/are inherently oppressive” happens to contribute to patriarchy that way. Plus, what’s the endpoint of this line of thought? Separatist feminism? People have done that before. The whole thing smells the same as gender-segregated change rooms, which exist in part to reify the idea that men and women are “inherently different creatures” and “men can’t be trusted around women”.

Of course, being a man under patriarchy does mean having to unlearn misogyny that society teaches and refusing opportunities to engage in misogynist violence, which is a different issue if you ask me. That’s more about asking who needs to read The Will To Change by bell hooks.

I can only speak for myself but I’ve had some difficulties squaring my “masculinity” with my life and views and I find new questions every time I find an answer. But I also know that sometimes looking for an answer is as good as finding one, or that’s just the best we can realistically achieve with a mortal life, and hopefully understanding blossoms alongside experiences.

The only trans people I know personally are trans women or nonbinary, so the world of trans men is more foreign to me. But I’m also a man, so they are my brothers, so they should not be foreign to me. Isn’t that weird? Maybe we can talk about that interesting dynamic. I don’t know what their experiences are as trans people, but I do know what it’s like to be a man and feel like you’re alone, and I know the power of when your group of brothers has your back and you feel like you could take on the world. I want them to have as much of that good stuff with as little of the bad stuff as can be managed.

We can’t just cede ground to the right on what defines masculinity, or even positivity. So I have work to do, to learn more about the struggles of my trans brothers, and to foster a new masculinity rooted in that fraternity.

This sounds like TME/TMA discourse…