(L)and of the free and (L)iberty

archive.is seem to be down/buggy so here’s the whole article, not that it is worth reading

By The Editorial Board

The editorial board is a group of opinion journalists whose views are informed by expertise, research, debate and certain longstanding values. It is separate from the newsroom. See more of our coverage in your search results. Add The New York Times on Google

The preliminary deal ending President Trump’s four-month war with Iran is welcome but brings with it hard truths. Mr. Trump made a terrible mistake starting this war. He prosecuted it recklessly and in open defiance of the law. The United States is emerging weaker — militarily, diplomatically and economically — and will pay strategic costs for years to come.

The details of the deal are unclear, but the announced framework suggests that Mr. Trump has won few of the terms he insisted that he would. It is a humiliating comedown for him and the nation he leads.

Since the war began, he has said the United States would achieve “total and complete victory” and that Iran must agree to “unconditional surrender.” He suggested that regime change would occur. He said that Iran would be permitted “no enrichment” of uranium and that “the United States will, working with Iran, dig up and remove all of the deeply buried” near-bomb-grade nuclear material that it already holds.

None of this appears to be true. Iran’s hard-line government remains in place. The specifics of the nuclear agreement will apparently be negotiated over the next two months, but the terms seem likely to resemble those of a 2015 deal that President Barack Obama negotiated and that Mr. Trump canceled in 2018. He described the Obama agreement as the “worst deal ever” and said it put Iran on “a route to a nuclear weapon.” He criticized it for failing to force Iran to stop supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and for loosening economic sanctions. Yet his destructive war seems likely to leave him with a similar deal.

His biggest achievement in the cease-fire framework is the expected reopening of the Strait of Hormuz to global shipping traffic, which will eventually reduce the prices of energy and other goods. That, of course, is merely a reversion to the prewar status quo. Iran closed the strait in retaliation, to damage the global economy and increase political pressure on the United States. The move worked, and Iran’s leaders now understand that they hold a powerful economic weapon.

On balance, Iran emerges the strategic winner of the four-month war. It did suffer substantial losses, including much of its navy, air force, military-industrial capacity and political leadership, including Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader, who was killed on the war’s first day. With the war ending, however, Iran’s leadership can begin rebuilding.

The United States, for its part, looks weaker in the eyes of the world. The American military has shown itself unable to quash a much smaller opponent even as it burned through many of its long-range precision missiles and interceptors. The outcome damages this country’s ability to deter other potential adversaries. To begin to repair the damage, the United States would be wise to mend alliances in Europe, the Middle East and Asia that have been frayed by the war’s military and economic effects. The Pentagon will also need to modernize and prepare for the wars of the future. Neither is likely to happen under President Trump.

Before the American and Israeli attack began on Feb. 28, Iran’s leadership had endured a miserable two and a half years. The government was far weaker than it had been before the Oct. 7, 2023, attack on Israel by Hamas, which Iran has long funded and advised. In response to that attack, Israel significantly diminished Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iranian proxy group. In Syria, a murderous, Iran-backed dictator fell while Iran’s leaders did little to save him. Israel and the United States exposed Iran’s air defenses and missile program as paper tigers when they bombed Iranian nuclear sites last summer, setting back its program. All the while, Iran’s currency continued to plummet, and its economy was in ruins. Starting late last year, Iranians took to the streets to protest, and the regime responded by killing thousands of them, if not tens of thousands.

All these problems remain, and Iran is still weaker than it was three years ago. But the war has given it leverage it did not have when 2026 began. Its regime has demonstrated that it can survive waves of attacks from its two biggest enemies. Its leaders have not had to abandon their nuclear ambitions. And they have learned that the rest of the world seems unwilling to use military force to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. If Iran chooses to close the strait at some point in the coming months or years, what will Mr. Trump do in response?

We lay out these facts with no pleasure. Iran has been and remains a force for ill. It represses its own people, especially political dissidents, women, L.G.B.T.Q. people and religious minorities. It is a world leader in torture and executions, and it has financed terrorism in its region and far beyond. Iran’s leaders have impoverished a country where per capita income was above the global average as recently as the 1970s.

The regime’s distinct brutality should have been reason for the United States to think carefully and plan cautiously for any war. The history of modern American wars, particularly in Iran’s region, is full of hubris that incubated defeat. Yet Mr. Trump eschewed thoughtful planning at every step.

He accepted the rose-colored assessment of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, who predicted that the Iranian regime would quickly fall. Mr. Trump dismissed the views of his aides who told him that Mr. Netanyahu’s forecast was farcical. Mr. Trump ignored the Constitution and refused to seek congressional approval for the war. He did not listen to European and Asian allies who opposed his war. He failed to plan for Iran’s obvious ability to close the Strait of Hormuz. He made threats about destroying Iranian civilization that succeeded only in diminishing America’s moral standing.

For his sins, he has now agreed to a peace framework that the entire world understands is a defeat for him. It is a setback for America, too.

  • Big [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    Iran has been and remains a force for ill. It represses its own people, especially political dissidents, women, L.G.B.T.Q. people and religious minorities. It is a world leader in torture and executions, and it has financed terrorism in its region and far beyond.

    holo-point-1-baubau amerikkka holo-point-2-baubau

  • chgxvjh [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Nice that the New York crimes actually admits that the US started the war.

    You swap out Iran with US for most of the article.

    We lay out these facts with no pleasure. The US has been and remains a force for ill. It represses its own people, especially political dissidents, women, L.G.B.T.Q. people and religious minorities. It is a world leader in torture and executions, and it has financed terrorism in its region and far beyond.

  • SevenSkalls [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    We lay out these facts with no pleasure. Iran has been and remains a force for ill. It represses its own people, especially political dissidents, women, L.G.B.T.Q. people and religious minorities. It is a world leader in torture and executions, and it has financed terrorism in its region and far beyond. Iran’s leaders have impoverished a country where per capita income was above the global average as recently as the 1970s.

    The US, meanwhile, great place. A beacon of morality.

    BTW, this article didn’t once mention Israel’s present genocide and the US’s role in it, nor the fact that the US started the war by bombing a girl’s school, or the constant civilian lives and infrastructure it took during the war while Iran only targeted military bases and other military targets.

    • oliveoil [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      It represses its own people, especially political dissidents, women, L.G.B.T.Q. people and religious minorities.

      Iran executes gay people. However, on the T side of things, the Islamic Republic of Iran has arguably been better than the United States throughout it’s entire existence.

      And the United States has attempted to spread the death penalty for L G B T and Q throughout Africa - with significant success. And they are paving the way to take it even further within the US.

      Women are the vast majority of college educated people in the country.

      And geopolitically every single place where Iran has had a setback Christians got slaughtered, and in every place Iran won - Christians got to live in safety.

      There is on some level a complete inversion of reality.

      They lay out this deceit with complete mirth.

  • daniyeg [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    Iran’s leaders have impoverished a country where per capita income was above the global average as recently as the 1970s.

    oh absolutely fuck off. iran was a backwater peasant country on par with some recently decolonized african nations, and shah was selling like 6-10 mbpd of oil during peak oil prices, and wasted most of it on second grade US weapons to purse some US top cop fantasy. it was literally people with government jobs vs everyone else. literacy rate was around 40% at best, and that was after shah was conscripting people in the “knowledge army” to teach rural areas for 10 years. iran literally had one of the highest increases in HDI post revolution just because how fucked iran was during the shah’s reign. i fucking hate these people especially all the Darbari “old diaspora” ghouls thinking it was paradise because their daddy had protected all their land from land reform and had factories with fat contracts. fuck off this is some “argentina was one of the wealthiest countries in the world” crap.

    • oliveoil [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      literacy rate was around 40% at best,

      Iranian dissidents (from all sorts of backgrounds) keep lying about how Iran’s status as a well educated country was because of the Shah. Everyone keeps repeating this over and over.

      The fertility rate and other graphs demonstrate to me that Iran had the most rapid industrialization and education the world had ever seen following the Islamic Revolution.

      The population curves don’t lie.

      They also give credit to the removal of the clan system to the Shah. They also don’t provide any proof for this, but some of what you’re saying here implies this was the Islamic Revolution as well.

      • daniyeg [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        clans and tribes are still going it’s just that rural population ratio has fallen dramatically, and even though tribalism in cities is a thing it’s materially meaningless. Khans still had significant influence over people’s lives even after land reform, most of them pivoted to being capitalists and commercial land owners while maintaining their social status without their previous social obligations to the peasants. Shah’s white revolution was a disastrous campaign of land reform. it basically killed food self-sufficiency and land productivity. it is one of the main causes of the revolution that no one wants to talk about.

        over half of the peasants didn’t get any land, and those that did didn’t get enough to sustain themselves. people were forced to sell their land for cheap (most people have a horror story about how their idiot grandpa sold their lot for pennies, my grandpa didn’t even get a lot) to largely the same families that previously owned the land, or traded it for some meaningless shares. most of the new farms failed, and launched migration waves into tin can slums around the cities. that’s why iranian cities largely don’t have suburbs, and homes with backyards are largely inside the city, towns were usually surrounded by slums that later became part of the urban fabric.

        even if you didn’t sell, all the equipment belonged to the previous landlords, so now you had to rent your equipment and buy your own water and seed, again largely from the same landlords that used to provide it for free when you were a sharecropper, but now with all traditional safety nets ripped from under you. it created a phenomena known as “farm idiots” where less savvy farmers signed off most of their produce for pennies on the dollar (or qiran on the toman i guess) before the planting season had even begun, just so they could keep their farm running for another year. predatory middlemen are still common but now with the internet, direct buying from the farms is growing but is still insignificant.

    • Which shows that the NYT is historically illiterate. Why would chuds frame their own guy for signing the Versaille treaty, why would this even be a Versaille treaty in the first place? I did not know Iran gets to demilitarize California now.

      • I think it’s more “everyone will blame this loss on whoever they want”. Chuds will blame leftists and Trans people, policy wonks will blame the incompetent Trump team (Kamala would’ve won this war!). Rather than examining why they lost, they seem more interested in turning it into a cudgel for every demographic.

    • micnd90 [he/him,any]@hexbear.netOP
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      The funny thing is that this time around Atlantic neocons, Democrats, libs, Israeli hasbaras, leftists, and chud groypers are all united in saying that the US took the L (for different reasons obviously).