I keep seeing Democrats/Republicans complaining that hasan piker said the US deserved 9/11. (Which is contested that he said it I know.)
But dont a lot of people agree with that idea in whole or part? Or, have sympathy for the idea and why someone would think that way? or believe a conspiracy theory that some component of the US state directly caused or allowed the sept 11 attacks to happen?
Even back at the time, I believe it was Ward Churchill who evoked Malcolm X when saying it was “chickens coming home to roost”. And sure he was shitcanned for it but I really dont think it is such an untenable position to take these days.
It feels like the new “but doesnt Israel have a right to exist and defend itself?”. Since that old one has started to get a bit more contentious.
I can’t find any public opinion polls on what were the base causes of 9/11.
One of capitalist media’s greatest powers is to state an opinion that’s held weakly enough by a minority of the population is wrong and have the majority of the population socially enforce that. If 10% of people start to believe that America kinda did deserve 9/11, capitalist media has the power to turn them into pariahs until they submit.
a lot of people outside the US do, yeah. within? i assume not so much
a lot of people outside the US do
I don’t, the US would have deserved way worse than that.
“Originally, blowback was CIA internal coinage denoting the unintended, harmful consequences—to friendly populations and military forces”
Seems the CIA would agree with him but I think people just get hung up when Hasan used the word “deserve”.
America as a nation had it coming 100%
I don’t think Hasan believes the men, women, and children that died “deserved it” but that’s what his detractors want you to hear. It doesn’t help that’s how he phrased it, and definitely doesn’t help how easily it can be removed from its context.
Many people like to lazily think everything happens in a vacuum and will not spend any additional energy thinking why something happened through. And for those that do wonder, the first answers offered to them are propaganda and lies.
Having two opinions of a situation like “9/11 was a horrible tragedy” and “America caused this to happen via its foreign policy” is simply too complex or world shattering for many people to accept. Especially when the pre-packaged pills are much easier to swallow.
I have said before that you won’t find me saying “deserved” for the reasons you outlined. Ive always thought “had it coming” was a better way to communicate the concept and I can stand behind that.
I’d rather not see 3000 people die in an intentional plane crash and building collapse followed up by 2+ wars resulting in 1m+ deaths. This is why the empire must end.
Who cares if a few thousand die in the financial heart of the empire? They benefitted from imperialism and suffered the consequences. The fact that our response was to kill and destroy even more, only highlights how deserved it was.
Some of the people who died deserved it and others were just random people who lived and worked there
I live in America so you could argue i deserve to die for benefiting from its imperialism but i’m just a fucking chef paid less than the 1970s minimum wage, idfk what you want me to do about it
This take doesn’t translate to IRL praxis so I don’t have a place for it in my worldview. I view that positition as backpilled to the point of being counter-revoluntionary. i will admit that I carry a ton of resentment about the way things are, but my driver is not that nor a sense of anger, but rather my vision for the better, socialist, world that I believe is possible for the next generation. I think it is our duty to create that for them.
Violence is bad, actually. Literally the definition of “necessary evil”.
The US is evil day in and day out, as are the systems propogated by it. Any retaliation against the Great Satan is inherently fair. Its ridiculous how high a pedestal a handful of people and a couple of buildings are given just because they’re in America.
We kill people every day. We destroy buildings every day.
Oh but they blew up the World Trade Center, better destabilize the globe and slaughter indiscriminately.
or believe a conspiracy theory that some component of the US state directly caused or allowed the sept 11 attacks to happen?
pretty much the entire Bush admin were signatories to the founding of the Project for a New American Century which 1) wanted regime change in Iraq and which 2) wanted to retool the U.S. military to a degree that would take a “pearl harbor like event” to galvanize the public into supporting
like, they straight up say that shit
Anyway, the Bush admin was 2 for 3
Americans would prefer to subjugate the world without blowback.
No consequence! Only privlidge!
deleted by creator
I really depends on the circles. And most older people certainly don’t think that way.
There are places you would get your ass beat for saying it. It’s definitely controversial still
How can it be contested everything the man says is recorded
The contest is about context and interpretation.
When viewed in correct context, the obvious interpretation is that Hasan was talking about blowback from imperial wars of choice.
When taken out of context, the right wing interpretation is that “Hasan cheers on the death of each and every firefighter on 9/11”.
Well, Hasan definitely said it. And if you consider the full context of what he was saying, it makes perfect sense (American government brought on such an attack due to its foreign policy decisions). He has explained his position on this matter multiple times on his stream over the years - I remember one time in particular he hit such a perfect stream of consciousness flow explaining it all in just 10-15 minutes, but sadly, I can’t find a link for that clip. I did find his “apology” that he did on TYT shortly afterwards, and he does a decent job of explaining his reasoning there if you want to know more: tyt clip To be wholly fair to Hasan though, this was in the immediate aftermath and he was a bit shook from the reverberations of it all, plus it’s rumored that his uncle made him do this segment even though he didn’t really want to. So yeah, context is important in all things.
Anyway, I agree with your sentiment about this being akin to Zionist nonsense like Israel right to defend itself (by head shotting babies every day, of course.) This is primarily fake manufactured outrage that is meant to discredit Hasan because the owner class realizes he has some motion and they want to shut him down before he goes and gets someone like Cori Bush re-elected with his rhetoric. Rhetoric which is actually left of center, something forbidden in American political discourse altogether it seems.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
actually 9/11 was collatoral damage
One of my favorite movie lines is from Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven
(Gene Hackman) Little Bill: “I don’t deserve this, to die like this.”
(Clint) William Muny: “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it”
and I think that sums up how I feel about 9/11. Hasan should use this line every time someone asks him about it.
snoop from the wire uses the exact same line, I’ve seen unforgiven but never put the two together
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
9/11 happened because haters.
Idk what exactly you mean by “a lot” but the number definitely isn’t zero
See upper range of bush support, and the rest was likely against war as such. i would assume less than 2-3%.
See reaction to sontag saying as much as hasan significantly more eloquently in 2001
https://biblioklept.org/2021/09/11/monstrous-dose-of-reality-susan-sontag-on-9-11/
