There is no information on how the data is collected. Perhaps China labels the deaths as heart failure or some other cause of death.
And like the other comments states, these numbers needs to be weighted for population.
Our World in Data conducts pretty rigorous research. I’ve looked up their studies before, and they’re pretty impressive. They know what they’re doing.
I don’t have access to the source data since you need to register, but I would assume that OurWorldInData knows to aggregate Europe per population, and not just average the values per country. France is not the only outlier, there’s also Norway and probably some others I haven’t seen
Ok, looked into the data and saw that there were practically zero until 2011 and a steady rise to 5/100000 annually for Norway. That is equal to 280 people a year.
Looked at national newspapers and found that following numbers: Between 2017 and 2021 860 people had malnutrition and starvation as main cause of death. 3790 had starvation as one of several causes if death.
These are all gearateic patients in hospital or assistes living. If you stop eating or drinking you will worsen existing conditions and also be more susceptible to new afflictions. Because of increased awareness to this in Norway, doctors writing cause of death has started registering more cases.
As I said as long as the numbers is just presented and not quality assured and explained it’s like discussing apples and pears. There is a problem with geariatric patients not starvation in Norway.
That fucking makes me curious as I am a Norwegian and hunger and malnutrition is not visible. But 5 in 100000 in Norway with 5.6 million totalt population is 280 people. But it all depends how deaths are reported. In Norway the norm is old age homes, run by the local municipality and there has been discussion how the food served is not the best. And how the residents doesn’t eat enough. Also you need more flavour to make food palatable for the elderly as you loose your sense of taste as you get older.
How anyone can have infant malnutrition on Norway is beyond me. You have mandatory visita to health station at 1, 3, 6 and 12 months (and 2 and 3 years) with consultation from physician and nurses. They weigh and measure and vaccinate. We got state sponsored prescription for hypoallergenic baby formula, so actual malnutrition should be caught. But I know that some immigrant communities and “alternative medicine” doesn’t trust the system so they might be the numbers.
WTF is going on in france
They got rid of their monarchs, so there’s noone left to tell them to eat cake
Be aware, very old people die from this as a secondary cause from a primary of Alzheimer’s and other dementias. They just stop eating. It’s a misleading statistic to use to identify poverty based malnutrition. It’s a very common diagnosis in terminal patients. And the way US billing works, getting the most diagnosis codes recorded is important for reimbursement. It’s likely the cause for this disparity.
Edit: yeah 2015 is when ICD-10 adoption and cms billing changes went into play. And then the rate quadrupled. This is an artifact of the US’s dumb private/public insurance model for end of life as more people gamed the system for reimbursement. The spread of billing practices over time.
Why is France also an outlier?
Gave a detailed answer: https://lemmy.ml/post/46593201/25415914
Ah, thanks. I figured that, like the US, it was some kind of other policy that had a side effect of artificially skewing the numbers.
What’s the US’s excuse in this case?
Go read the comment I initially replied to.
Dunno. I’m a US nurse. I don’t know how France does their death certificates. Wouldn’t surprise me that they’re more granular though.
wtf is going on in france
“Let them eat cake” moment.
Jokes apart, the children of the rich are obese, the children of the poor are too thin. Both tendencies contribute to malnutrition.
https://globalnutritionreport.org/resources/nutrition-profiles/europe/western-europe/france/
Ppl eating shits. We have sole stuff even Americans will have to take a breath to finish thoses meals
I’ve read this over several times, and have come to the conclusion that you are either having a stroke, or a dog wrote this.
You okay?
What’s your dog up to?
I live in France…
You’re mixing two population averages, so you need a weighted calculation.
Let’s approximate first: France has about 67 million people out of roughly 447 million in the European Union, so ≈15% French and 85% non-French.
We set up:
Overall EU rate = weighted average 1.7=0.15⋅8+0.85⋅x
Solve:
1.7=1.2+0.85x 0.5=0.85x x≈0.59
So, among non-French Europeans, the rate is roughly 0.6 per 100,000.
That’s substantially lower than both the French rate (8) and the EU average (1.7), which makes sense given how high the French figure is relative to the rest. Also this is pretty much what I read for Vietnam in this chart.
thanks France, for ruining our numbers!
Edit: somewhere in this thread someone from France gives a perfectly good reason and connects the high starvation rate to assisted suicide. Which shines it’s light on another problem but very well explains and justifies the “starvation rate” - making this graph/comparison even more absurd.
Dunno what you’re trying to prove here, apart from “removing an outlier from the data makes the data closer to the average”, which is pretty obvious.
But you can clearly see that the graph shows Europe, not EU, so using your same calculation with the population of Europe, which is 745 million and excluding France, the result is 1.13.
Also I don’t see any indication that OurWorldInData is using an average of countries (which would be stupid). Considering their jobs are statistics, they probably know how to aggregate per population, aka a weighted average.
it says Europe though, not the European Union
if you click the question mark near the Europe statistic, it says it also includes countries like Russia and the UK which mess with the statistic a lot
good point, makes the comparison even worse %-)
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Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable
Part of the ideology of white-supremacy, is that proximity to whiteness means trustworthiness and authenticity, and distance from it means untrustworthiness.
So white supremacists think only the western countries (and their allies like South Korea, Japan, and other US military base countries) data and educational institutions can be trusted, while the numbers coming from any country opposed to them must inherently be a lie.
“Data from authoritarian countries is less reliable”
Uh-oh.
Please tell me, which countries/peninsulae on the graph are authoritarian, and which are not.
Authoritarian (Bad Guys) ((Not white))
Also being white is a weird definition. The Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese have a very white color of skin. Slavic people too have a white skin. But in both cases, they are not considered white.
Even Russians got kicked out of being white
Russia has always been part European and part Asian. The city of Kazan’ is a proof of that.
Regarding point 1, this is relatively true.
Regarding point 2, all of these states are “authoritarian,” the difference being which class has authority, and which classes has authority imposed upon them. Cuba, the PRC, and Vietnam are all socialist countries with the working class in charge of the state, while France, Europe, and the US are all imperialist countries/regions where capitalists control the state and impose their authoritarian rule upon the working classes.
Regarding point 3, this could be a possible explanation but requires actual backing.
Regarding point 4, it’s important to compare not just systems dogmatically, but against peers, and what came before. Germany, the UK, Austria, etc. are all imperialist countries, and thus have greater access to resources. It matters both how much resources you have, and what you do with them. Socialist countries have more pro-social policy that stretches resources farther.
In total, it certainly is propaganda in that it’s trying to convey a specific point for a specific aim, just like your comment can be considered propaganda. You offer some decent ideas of how to improve the data, but you also insert your own biases without backing them up, and run into metaphysical errors regarding how these are compared (such as ignoring levels of development and imperialism).
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A bit odd coming from the instance currently trying to fake a Neo-Nazi takeover of an anarchist instance just because Feddit.org and Lemmy.world admins got outed as Zionists.
westerners – americans in particular – live in a strange world where reality is treated like propaganda and propaganda is treated as natural human reality; i know this to be true because i also once believed it.
This strange world, in which I replied to a comment refuting this propaganda :O
Is France really so far above the European average? Or am I reading this wrong?
I am french. I already saw these figures and tried to understand why it was like that. The figures might be technically correct but it doesn’t make sense to compare them with other countries. 5000 people dying each year of hunger, it would be revolting.
We do not let people die of starvation in France, unless we think it is the best thing to do. We have this concept of “sédation profonde et continue”. Assisted suicide is prohibited in France. So people that suffer from uncurable decease can stop receiving food and hydratation until they die. They continue to receive painkiller or are even put in coma because letting them die that way is legal and considered the most human thing to do. A french christian newspaper wrote an article about it End of life: Are we really letting patients to die of hunger and thirst in France?. They are really opposed to assisted suicide and even them are OK with this process. So technically, we are letting people die of hunger.
About people suffering from hunger, we have food bank to help them, meal costs 1€ at university… It is far from perfect but we are not letting people die like the figures would let imagine.
About overseas regions, it is not that poor. The poorest overseas region, Mayotte, has been mostly destroyed by a cyclone two years ago. Both public services and NGOs thanks to a lot of donation reacted quickly to avoid famine. The situation is still bad but people are not starving.
Hope I answer the question
Very interesting. Thank you.
Thank you!
things don’t doing well in the french overseas regions?
Likely the same reason for the US
French overseas regions are officially part of France, while US except Hawaii are not, so they likely are not counted in this statistics for US. Also the France has 4-4,5% of total population in overseas territories while US have around 1% so their impact in case of France would be also over 4 times greater.
So it’s most certainly just the good US of A.
Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands aren’t counted?
I looked at the source and no, they aren’t, just the proper states.
Not much is proper in the states these days.
no one look at our tea
That’s wild!
i doubt that, the us is in worst conditions than many third world countries
Half that spike is the US Navy.
I see that some people try to attribute this to older population and/or Alzheimer, but even by those metrics the countries above are pretty close and wouldn’t justify such a big gap:
As for the reliability of data, it’s from a peer reviewed study by an American university. If they had a way to make the China data look worse, I’m sure they wouldn’t hesitate.
You wouldn’t expect more (or less) primary causes if more secondary causes were reported in multifactorial deaths. I’d imagine the fact that in the US CMS adopted ICD-10 in 2015 and the rapid rise after would make that obvious enough. Unless you believe there’s some pre-COVID etiology for malnutrition that explains the jump I’m not seeing.
Vietnam undefeated
Isn’t malnutrition also englobe stuff as too much food and bad food ? Pretty sure a big portion of thoses are fat Americans that kill themself with food
Putting the blame on individuals is wrong. Obesity is a result of endless advertising and poor regulation due to capitalism.
As tobacco I bet
Yep exactly like tobaco, even more so with tobaco.
Best anti-capitalist argument.
Yeah, but those are poor people, so 🤷♂️
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And what makes data from Vietnam not reliable…?
When they counted, they counted hundreds of thousands! We didn’t count therefore the number is zero, well done! The good and simple people of Starvation Land can sleep easy knowing that no one ever starves in Starvation Land
Usian nationalists might soon be telling each other this story, to feel less hungry…
It feels good to be starving, knowing that someone else is starving more
dark /s
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How exactly is this cherry-picking? Communists wanting everyone to have food and be taken care of are entirely different from capitalists that want to suck the surplus value out of every worker. Horseshoe theory is wrong.
