• Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    Some recommended reading about George “I should like to put it on record that I have never been able to dislike Hitler” Orwell:

    one could say the widespread misperception of who he actually was and what he stood for is rather… orwellian 🙄

    • _Cid_@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      “I should like to put it on record that I have never been able to dislike Hitler. Ever since he came to power—till then, like nearly everyone, I had been deceived into thinking that he did not matter—I have reflected that I would certainly kill him if I could get within reach of him, but that I could feel no personal animosity.”

      I think the first sentence was taken a bit out of context. In the second he says he would kill him if got the chance to. I think he’s just trying to say that Hitler was charismatic.

    • parentesis@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 day ago

      The great Orwellian contribution to future technology is that the
      television set is two-way, and that the people who are forced to hear and
      see the television screen can themselves be heard and seen at all times and
      are under constant supervision even while sleeping or in the bathroom.
      Hence, the meaning of the phrase ‘Big Brother is watching you’.
      This is an extraordinarily inefficient system of keeping everyone under
      control. To have a person being watched at all times means that some other
      person must be doing the watching at all times (at least in the Orwellian
      society) and must be doing so very narrowly, for there is a great
      development of the art of interpreting gesture and facial expression.

      Interesting that someone like Asimov has not seen how technology would make this possible, like it’s right now

      • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 day ago

        Interesting that someone like Asimov has not seen how technology would make this possible

        He did. A few paragraphs later he says:

        Orwell was unable to conceive of computers or robots, or he would have placed everyone under non-human surveillance.

      • Juice@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 day ago

        What no Foucault does to a MF.

        The idea that every person will only behave as though they are being watched if they are actually being watched, fails to recognize that if people know that they could be watched at any time, but can’t actually see if the watcher is watching them, they will behave as though they are being watched all the time.

        Panopticon goes brrrr

    • djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      2 days ago

      The guy fought Nazi supplied Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War. This take is nuts, he almost died for the CNT-FAI. He’s not a Nazi sympathizer.

      • Riverside@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        1 day ago

        And went on to literally work for the British intelligence services and provide them lists of communists, you could read the provided sources.

        Just a thought experiment: since you apply this logic that fighting the Nazi-supplied nationalists in the Spanish civil war makes one an antifascist, do you agree that the greatest antifascist force in Europe was the USSR as the only country supplying weapons, munitions, tanks and airplanes to the Republican and Anarchist during the civil war?

          • Riverside@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            1 day ago

            Circular sourcing, you’re quoting Orwell himself in that citation.

            Regardless, “the communists” referred to in this link are not the USSR, they’re the Spanish communists, you’re conflating the two again and therefore pushing the fascist propaganda that the Jewish Bolsheviks were puppeteering everything in Spain. Also, are there any quantitative modern studies of the scale of this “embargo”? Because I’ve provided sources* proving that the extent of the “anarchist repression” by the USSR in Spain was about 20 individuals, and motivated by the revolts in Barcelona that the Fascists and Nazis were pushing for.

            *I linked the sources in another comment, here is my research on the topic as a Spaniard myself. If you read through this, you’ll see that Stalin himself commended the anarchists in private meetings with the Republican diplomats and tried to get the Spanish Second Republic to collaborate with them

            Edit: adding Stalin’s opinion on collaboration with anarchists:

            Aludió ampliamente a los anarquistas y señaló que en las filas confederales había buenos elementos. Preguntó si podría haber una plataforma común entre socialistas y comunistas a propósito de la CNT. La respuesta de Pascua fue afirmativa, aunque con matices.

            He extensivelty referred to the Anarchists and pointed out that there were good elements among the confederates [CNT, largest Spanish anarchist organization at the time]. He asked whether there could be a common platform between socialists and communist regarding the CNT. Pascua’s answer was affirmative, though with caveats.

            (Translated by myself from one of the sources linked, feel free to browse through the books yourself as I did).

            • anaVal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 day ago

              To be honest I don’t care if the communists are Soviet or Spain. The arms that the USSR was sending didn’t reach the anarchists. That was the only claim I was refuting.

              Reiterating for the sake of clarity.

              That the Communists withheld arms from the Aragon front seems established beyond question, and it can hardly be doubted that the motivation was political. See, for example, D.T. Cattell, Communism and the Spanish Civil War (1955; reprinted New York: Russell & Russell, 1965), p. 110.

              The fact that the footnote ends with Orwell’s own quote is just a nice tie back to the discussion.

              Regarding the rest of the comment I’m not interested in reenacting “anarchist vs ML: spanish civil war” online theater. I just wanted to push back on the claim that the USSR supplied anarchists.

              • Riverside@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 day ago

                To be honest I don’t care if the communists are Soviet or Spain.

                I just wanted to push back on the claim that the USSR supplied anarchists

                Least intellectually dishonest anticommunist.

                I’ll go ahead and spend one fucking hour reading through the sources again just to prove you wrong because I’m 100% certain that the at least half of weapons that the anarchists used were of Soviet origin, and I know for certain you won’t provide such sourcing because if you actually did the reading you wouldn’t be saying that the USSR didn’t supply the anarchists too.

                Otherwise prove me wrong: give me a modern source estimating the availability of weaponry of anarchists in the Spanish civil war and its origin.

                • anaVal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  Ok. You wanna dance? Let’s dance.

                  The USSR did supply (provide any weapons to) anarchists in Spain.
                  However the Communists¹ didn’t supply (provide as many weapons as they could have to) anarchists in Spain.

                  ¹: because as you pointed out the fault wasn’t just the USSR but Spanish as well.

                  I was hoping that the context made the distinction clear but clearly that is not the case.

                  • Riverside@reddthat.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 day ago

                    Give. Me. A. Material. Numeric. Source.

                    Until you do that, your analysis is exclusively vibes-based, and should be rejected.

      • Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 day ago

        Everything we know about Orwell disagrees, from his review of Mein Kampf to his comments about Jews and Homosexuals. He opposed fighting the literal German Nazis until war actually broke out. The civil was was a few years and a single book, and hardly representative of his entire life.

    • RamenJunkie@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      2 days ago

      Its a bit off topic, but its really amusing in that Isaac Asimov article how he talks about the Spain thing where Socialists, Communists, and Anarchists were at odds. Basically, the left righting amongst themselves.

      The more things change…