And went on to literally work for the British intelligence services and provide them lists of communists, you could read the provided sources.
Just a thought experiment: since you apply this logic that fighting the Nazi-supplied nationalists in the Spanish civil war makes one an antifascist, do you agree that the greatest antifascist force in Europe was the USSR as the only country supplying weapons, munitions, tanks and airplanes to the Republican and Anarchist during the civil war?
Circular sourcing, you’re quoting Orwell himself in that citation.
Regardless, “the communists” referred to in this link are not the USSR, they’re the Spanish communists, you’re conflating the two again and therefore pushing the fascist propaganda that the Jewish Bolsheviks were puppeteering everything in Spain. Also, are there any quantitative modern studies of the scale of this “embargo”? Because I’ve provided sources* proving that the extent of the “anarchist repression” by the USSR in Spain was about 20 individuals, and motivated by the revolts in Barcelona that the Fascists and Nazis were pushing for.
*I linked the sources in another comment, here is my research on the topic as a Spaniard myself. If you read through this, you’ll see that Stalin himself commended the anarchists in private meetings with the Republican diplomats and tried to get the Spanish Second Republic to collaborate with them
Edit: adding Stalin’s opinion on collaboration with anarchists:
Aludió ampliamente a los anarquistas y señaló que en las filas confederales había buenos elementos. Preguntó si podría haber una plataforma común entre socialistas y comunistas a propósito de la CNT. La respuesta de Pascua fue afirmativa, aunque con matices.
He extensivelty referred to the Anarchists and pointed out that there were good elements among the confederates [CNT, largest Spanish anarchist organization at the time]. He asked whether there could be a common platform between socialists and communist regarding the CNT. Pascua’s answer was affirmative, though with caveats.
(Translated by myself from one of the sources linked, feel free to browse through the books yourself as I did).
To be honest I don’t care if the communists are Soviet or Spain. The arms that the USSR was sending didn’t reach the anarchists. That was the only claim I was refuting.
Reiterating for the sake of clarity.
That the Communists withheld arms from the Aragon front seems established beyond question, and it can hardly be doubted that the motivation was political. See, for example, D.T. Cattell, Communism and the Spanish Civil War (1955; reprinted New York: Russell & Russell, 1965), p. 110.
The fact that the footnote ends with Orwell’s own quote is just a nice tie back to the discussion.
Regarding the rest of the comment I’m not interested in reenacting “anarchist vs ML: spanish civil war” online theater. I just wanted to push back on the claim that the USSR supplied anarchists.
To be honest I don’t care if the communists are Soviet or Spain.
I just wanted to push back on the claim that the USSR supplied anarchists
Least intellectually dishonest anticommunist.
I’ll go ahead and spend one fucking hour reading through the sources again just to prove you wrong because I’m 100% certain that the at least half of weapons that the anarchists used were of Soviet origin, and I know for certain you won’t provide such sourcing because if you actually did the reading you wouldn’t be saying that the USSR didn’t supply the anarchists too.
Otherwise prove me wrong: give me a modern source estimating the availability of weaponry of anarchists in the Spanish civil war and its origin.
The USSR did supply (provide any weapons to) anarchists in Spain.
However the Communists¹ didn’t supply (provide as many weapons as they could have to) anarchists in Spain.
¹: because as you pointed out the fault wasn’t just the USSR but Spanish as well.
I was hoping that the context made the distinction clear but clearly that is not the case.
It seems good enough for you because it reinforces your previous beliefs. Keep calling yourself a leftist while you ignore material understanding of history and reality.
From the citation you quoted:
Orwell was also able to refute, from firsthand observation, many of the other absurdities that were appearing in the liberal press about the Aragon front, for example, the statement by Ralph Bates in the New Republic that the POUM troops were “playing football with the Fascists in no man’s land.”
It’s a well-known historical fact that the Aragón front was mostly limp and that there was no pushing by either side for the longest time. From “González-Ruibal, A. (2020). The Archaeology of the Spanish Civil War (1st ed.). Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9780429260131”:
In the winter of 1938, the fate of the war was being decided in the southern part of Aragón, in the province of Teruel which, as we saw, was the scenario of one of the largest battles of the Spanish Civil War. While the Battle of Teruel was raging, most of the Aragón frontline, however, remained calm— perhaps precisely because of that. This was the case in the lands of the
province of Zaragoza that had experienced the ravages of war during the summer of 1937. In the previous chapter, we saw how the Popular Army managed to stop the Nationalist units in Mediana de Aragón that came to the rescue of Belchite. After September 1937 the front did not move and the soldiers of both armies dug in and waited.
Orwell continues to be an unreliable source. It’s incredible to me that you still quote him as an authority figure when he’s patently lying.
On that very source, the author performs archaeological excavations and, what do you know, what he finds the most from Republicans are Soviet munitions and Polish grenades!
Our work in the area began with an advanced Republican post that had a large amount of ammunition on the surface. The excavation revealed a dugout for a machine gun, which yielded a rather homogeneous assemblage: one hundred Soviet 7.62 mm shell casings and a stack of empty ammunition boxes. In all likelihood, this was the position of a Maxim machine gun. […] first, Republicans appear by surprise and attack with grenades. The sentinel is forced to crouch while the attackers cut the barbed wire with pliers. After the explosions come the shots. The Breda
replies to the Mosin’s fire. But the Republicans keep coming closer and closer. They throw grenades, they advance. The sentinel throws his Lafittes, which explode at a close range, but he is unable to stop the attackers, who fall upon him and shoot from the top of the parapet. How does the story end? We do not know. But several Mosin shell casings around the foxhole and the trench indicate that Republicans made it that far.
And went on to literally work for the British intelligence services and provide them lists of communists, you could read the provided sources.
Just a thought experiment: since you apply this logic that fighting the Nazi-supplied nationalists in the Spanish civil war makes one an antifascist, do you agree that the greatest antifascist force in Europe was the USSR as the only country supplying weapons, munitions, tanks and airplanes to the Republican and Anarchist during the civil war?
Being anti communism is the same as being pro Nazi now?
Always has been, but not sure why you’re telling this in response to my comment
The USSR didn’t supply the anarchists.
TheyThe Communists actively refused to give them arms and worked against them. That was the cause of Orwell’s disdain towards them. source: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/noam-chomsky-on-anarchism#fn70Edit: Correcting sentencing after being corrected in a reply.
Circular sourcing, you’re quoting Orwell himself in that citation.
Regardless, “the communists” referred to in this link are not the USSR, they’re the Spanish communists, you’re conflating the two again and therefore pushing the fascist propaganda that the Jewish Bolsheviks were puppeteering everything in Spain. Also, are there any quantitative modern studies of the scale of this “embargo”? Because I’ve provided sources* proving that the extent of the “anarchist repression” by the USSR in Spain was about 20 individuals, and motivated by the revolts in Barcelona that the Fascists and Nazis were pushing for.
*I linked the sources in another comment, here is my research on the topic as a Spaniard myself. If you read through this, you’ll see that Stalin himself commended the anarchists in private meetings with the Republican diplomats and tried to get the Spanish Second Republic to collaborate with them
Edit: adding Stalin’s opinion on collaboration with anarchists:
(Translated by myself from one of the sources linked, feel free to browse through the books yourself as I did).
To be honest I don’t care if the communists are Soviet or Spain. The arms that the USSR was sending didn’t reach the anarchists. That was the only claim I was refuting.
Reiterating for the sake of clarity.
The fact that the footnote ends with Orwell’s own quote is just a nice tie back to the discussion.
Regarding the rest of the comment I’m not interested in reenacting “anarchist vs ML: spanish civil war” online theater. I just wanted to push back on the claim that the USSR supplied anarchists.
Least intellectually dishonest anticommunist.
I’ll go ahead and spend one fucking hour reading through the sources again just to prove you wrong because I’m 100% certain that the at least half of weapons that the anarchists used were of Soviet origin, and I know for certain you won’t provide such sourcing because if you actually did the reading you wouldn’t be saying that the USSR didn’t supply the anarchists too.
Otherwise prove me wrong: give me a modern source estimating the availability of weaponry of anarchists in the Spanish civil war and its origin.
Ok. You wanna dance? Let’s dance.
The USSR did supply (provide any weapons to) anarchists in Spain.
However the Communists¹ didn’t supply (provide as many weapons as they could have to) anarchists in Spain.
¹: because as you pointed out the fault wasn’t just the USSR but Spanish as well.
I was hoping that the context made the distinction clear but clearly that is not the case.
Give. Me. A. Material. Numeric. Source.
Until you do that, your analysis is exclusively vibes-based, and should be rejected.
That is my source. It’s good enough for me. The fact that Chomsky (a well respected academic*) published that is good enough for me.
*: There are ties to Epstein, but for me that doesn’t invalidate his academic opinion.
It seems good enough for you because it reinforces your previous beliefs. Keep calling yourself a leftist while you ignore material understanding of history and reality.
From the citation you quoted:
It’s a well-known historical fact that the Aragón front was mostly limp and that there was no pushing by either side for the longest time. From “González-Ruibal, A. (2020). The Archaeology of the Spanish Civil War (1st ed.). Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9780429260131”:
Orwell continues to be an unreliable source. It’s incredible to me that you still quote him as an authority figure when he’s patently lying.
On that very source, the author performs archaeological excavations and, what do you know, what he finds the most from Republicans are Soviet munitions and Polish grenades!
The May Days is not some unknown event.
I can walk down the street here see the bullet holes.
What’s your point?
You don’t need Orwell to know that the anarchists and Stalinists fell into opposition.
I don’t see where I argued that the may days didnt happen