When the ‘law of the jungle’ replaces international norms ’no sovereign nation is safe’: Xinhua commentary.
Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.
I agree with China.
And when China of all places has the balls to tell you this, you know you done messed up.
This is international diplomacy 101 for China.
They’re very vocal about the perceived infractions of others, while refusing to acknowledge their own.
Its more about shaping the perceptions of their own citizens than whatever foreigners might think.
In this case, theyre dead right ofc.
They’re very vocal about the perceived infractions of others, while refusing to acknowledge their own.
Its more about shaping the perceptions of their own citizens than whatever foreigners might think.
Unlike the US. /s
US citizens are pretty vocal about the failings of their nation. Good luck finding that in unimprisoned China nationals.
Go to the south sometime and ask them about their cool confederate flags.
Ironically they will just as likely go on a tirade against the guvmint, for entirely different reasons.
I didn’t imply ALL of them thought the same way. My point was that Americans still have the freedom to speak up (for now)
Tell that to people like Fred Hampton or Garry Web or Chelsea Manning.
All spoke out against the American government and all paid for it w their lives; their livelihoods; or both and time has vindicated all of them.
I don’t disagree with you, but there’s still a vast gulf between freedom of speech in the US and China
US citizens are pretty vocal about the failings of their nation.
This is where you were wrong. We are an ignorant, stupid people.
Some*
For now…
but fail to act on it
Are you referring to the people who voted for Trump? Vocal, yes, accurate, no.
Pretty much the opposite actually. Trump’s in power, why would his supporters fear being vocal right now
I mean, they learned from the best superpower of the last half century. At least they haven’t gotten to exporting liberation by force stage of the playbook quite yet.
I had this comment in my bingo card for this thread
Trump has only set a precedent for China. If the rest of the west doesn’t do shit about this, which they won’t, China will just follow Trumps playbook. Don’t be surprised when Xi will order the kidnapping of the Taiwanese president.
The fact that they went with “Trump broke international law” instead of “America’s unilateral actions validate our unilateral actions” gives me some hope (for lack of a better word) that they’re going for a diplomatic / economic victory by trying to take the vacated US place as “leader of the free world” instead of going full Trump/Putin on a world that’s already got enough shit to deal with.
The end point is still the same, of course, and I’m pretty sure it’s not a very good one from an European citizen’s point of view, but at least this would take longer and be less violent overall, and might help defuse Putin and Trump.
the US is making it more easy than ever for China to set itself up as the new world reserve currency/police/center of stability.
china works towards china’s self interests, they’re predictable but ultimately easy for the west to respond to if they stop ratfucking for a split-second.
you can’t say remotely the same for the US, the US is an abusive partner that smacks you around for 4 years then gaslights you things are different (while still smacking you around) for 4 years, repeat
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China will just follow Trumps playbook.
Why would they do that? His playbook is dumb and routinely backfires.
Seems like they’re stick with their existing playbook as it has been far more successful
Lmao what an insane whataboutism, akin to “the crazy screaming guy that stomps over the neighborhood just took another person hostage. So watch out for the quiet neighbor that has done nothing wrong for my entire life time, they’ll probably start taking hostages any minute too.”
Are you saying the CCP has done nothing that violates international laws or threaten other countries sovereignty?
There’s no “whataboutism”, is that the joke? Ha! it’s funny because the word is wildly inappropriate! Ha ha!
This is a “but what about China?” comment and if you can’t see that I can’t help you.
But the subject IS China, damn it’s right there in the OP.
I don’t know how you missed it, kinda weird.
The subject is the China saying “this is bad don’t do this” you nitwit
Just a head’s up, that doesn’t mean whataboutism, you sad thing
Good luck with that reading comprehension
I love how American minds work. “We did a terrible thing, this is bad because China might do the same!!” Meanwhile China hasn’t dripped a bomb in decades.
Fucking liberals.
lol I’m not American. Try again libtard
I’m a socialist, and I don’t give a fuck where you’re from. American Exceptionalism and Imperial Apologia doesn’t concern itself with your soil, just your words and actions.
Sit down and shut up.
You’re american at mind if not geographically, seeing your “logic”
Please stop with the hate speech, that’s jail time for you
If you don’t wanna be called American, don’t talk like one
I don’t talk like one you moron
Something like that will happen. The US is trying to ruin China’s oil imports - from Venezuela and Iran. China will need to show they are serious.
USA acknowledge and support One China Policy when it became convenient for corporations, under Carter. Now it’s inconvenient for the same businessmen and regular people continue to dance on the strings of the uberwealthy puppetmasters and the rich who leave nations because of personal wealth either being affected or potentially affected. Same with Batista Cubans, Venezuelan and Chinese expats.
And there is also a reason so many Vietnam vets now reside in Vietnam, full time.
👆
China could never, ever pull this off
First of all, the gap between the US military and Chinese military is massive. Keep in mind, until the Russia invaded Ukraine, it used to be the consensus second strongest military in the world, not China. The gap between the US and Russia is comically huge. China simply lacks the intelligence gathering capabilities and the air/navel superiority to project power like this.
Second of all, Taiwan is not Venezuela. Venezuela is a poor, horribly mismanagement country led by an incompetent dictator. It’s relatively easy to pay off corrupt insiders to get them to work for you. It’s also much easier to find, target, and destroy military targets. That’s not true for Taiwan it is a wealthy, extremely managed country led by a democratic government full of qualified people. The Taiwanese government has been planning defense of their sovereignty for decades, and they’re pretty damn good at it.
The point is that if China had the ability to do something like this then they would’ve already done, but they haven’t because they can’t.
the gap between the US military and Chinese military is massive.
US is behind in most important areas, and vastly underproducing China despite spending much more. Drones and hypersonics are the important weapons. Navies/tanks are all extremely fragile now, because of these weapons. Iran was able to match US/Israel sufficiently for ending the war by bombing a mountain. Russia is also outproducing the entirety of NATO in important defense areas that, together with nationalist full self defense motivation, has outmatched west’s propaganda driven proxy war political will, with Ukraine’s assessment of Russian war costs only 20% higher than just the western aid to Ukraine. 75% loss of GDP, 8m emigrants, and loss of territory since 2014 war provocations, as Russia has gotten much stronger in addition to passing Germany and Japan in PPP GDP is simply a collapse of the west event by itself.
The point is that if China had the ability to do something like this then they would’ve already done, but they haven’t because they can’t.
Capability is expanding significantly every year. Autonomy with friendship is best outcome for Taiwan that it must balance to retain autonomy, which has been heading in wrong direction. Taiwan parliament majority is pro “neutrality” even if president is nazi. Easier, and more important to China, is a blockade of Taiwan that forces all exports to go through China first. US is currently losing ROK’s allegiance. Japan and Philippines are cruising for a bruising. US is likely willing to trade Asia for Latin America
What alternate reality do you live in? Not a single thing you said is even remotely true
China isn’t wrong.
Hey, what about those Epstein files?
China isn’t wrong
usually true
What have you done with all the details released from the Epstein files?
Nothing
What are you going to do when your pedophile, rapist is listed even more in Epstein files.
Also nothing
But keep that dumbass “I did something” spirits up by flooding unrelated discussions tho.
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Anarchist chatting shit about doing nothing
I’m not allowed to make up quotes, I’ve been a very very naughty
-you
I accept your apology.
what do you want, armed insurrection?
this is a stupid take.
The US has been scheming on taking Venezuela for at least two decades. But you are very smart for pointing out this action was a distraction from the pedo files.
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Like, I think what the US has done is illegal, but it’s pretty rich coming from the country of hostage diplomacy.
Not to mention all of the other human rights abuses
Ah, the pot calling the kettle black again.
China, whatever it is, doesn’t wage direct wars abroad and kidnap random presidents. Well, for now, at least. But seeing there is no accountability, they will certainly consider it much more seriously.
They’re openly threatening to invade another country and they’re in a hybrid war with almost all their neighbours. Plus, they’ve been enabling the Russian war in Ukraine from day one. They’re not in a position to be starting wars just yet but it’s certainly not for lack of trying. And you can ask the Uighurs the Tibetans, the Mongols and a lot of others what they think about this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China
I invite people to compare these two pages. I really don’t care to hear from any yanks on this.
You see, it is possible to resent both countries’ ambitions on other nations and global hegemony. You dont have to whatabout when someone points out that China is no saint either.
What are you even hoping to achieve here? Make the reader say “oh well, guess what China does is okay then”?
My point is the USA is a warmonger who needs to be treated as such. Further, you are aware that the beginning of this thread is literally a yank doing a whataboutism in the opposite direction? Why don’t you go whine to them if that bothers you so much?
Because they have already been ratioed and corrected in their perspective by other commenters.
I do of course entirely agree with you that the united states under current leadership are wildly untrustworthy and a potential danger to anyone who has something Trump wants. Scared for Denmark.
My point is the USA is a warmonger who needs to be treated as such.
Not only your point, but also China’s point. I think it is fair to talk about the wrongs of China when they point the wrongs of the US. On the other hand, since I am not from either country i feel they can endlessly point at each other because it might fuel the desire to be better. And both China and the US really need to do better when it comes to abiding to international humanitarian law.
This is a perfect example of the pot accusing the kettle, that saying is exactly meant for ‘whataboutism in the opposite direction’.
I’m not the one who complained about whataboutism. I pointed out that it’s hypocritical to whine about me doing it if you’re not also going to whine about the original commenter doing it. Which is fine, it’s legal to be a hypocrite. One should own it, though.
It is certainly possible to resent both, it is however pathetic to resent both equally, when one is 100 times worse than the other.
“This man just murdered my mother, but fuck the guy who’s calling him out, he slapped me once 30 years ago”
While i would agree that at the immediate present the u.s appear to be the more belligerent and unpredictable actor i believe that there is not a lot of room for nuance in terms of aggression towards other sovereign countries. They are all unacceptable to me. The US should stay the hell out of Venezuela, Russia out of Ukraine and China out of Taiwan, to use the most current examples.
I believe there is a lot of room for nuance when we start counting victims. To me, the Nazis are not functionally the same to Poland, even if Poland invaded Czechoslovakia together with them, because Poland didn’t murder tens of millions of people. To me, the USA murdering tens of millions of people (38 million through economic sanctioning together with the EU since 1970, and 500k more every year) is absolutely horrifying and incomparable to anything else today except possibly the genocide in Gaza by Israel
Ohh, the rich who were monetarily affected by Chinese policies that made the field more level and then tell tall tells as CIA prefers.
Here’s another perspective, if you can bother: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
It is just a threat right now so mihies is right for now
You. First one to the gulag.
Definitely. And our tankie friends here will be happy to volunteer as guards.
point? this is about the US. an active terrorist state. other states can be bad too. in fact they all are. but your comment serves to distract from and therefore protect the US. why?
Random Lemmy comments, the first line of defence for the US lol
Hey now. No reason to start behaving like tankies/ML. If it’s valid for the West to criticize them for their faults. (It is) Then, turn about is just as valid. Even if the criticism comes from a place of hypocrisy like this.
If anything, this should just be a reminder that no state is your ally or a responsible actor. And that the more power and concentration they have, like the United States, Russia, or China. The more brazenly they will abuse the people they’re supposed to represent and everyone around them.
I was in no way trying to imply that the pot and the kettle aren’t both black. That’s the whole point of the expression.
I know, and that’s why I didn’t down vote you. It’s just not really useful here. The United States calls out China all the time for its imperialism, oppression and abuses. And inevitably ML fall back to United States/West Bad. To defang any criticism. It’s not valid or appropriate when they do it. And it’s not when we do it either. Even when done with appropriate nuance as you did.
This is something that the United States is absolutely going to have to own. The criticism is 100% deserved and doesn’t need any defense or deflection like that. Unless of course, they are openly saying that they are better than the United States or the West. Then it would be absolutely appropriate. If it weren’t for hypocritical criticism, there wouldn’t be hardly be any criticism.
Is it time to build an allie to stop Orange Hitler? Nah, let’s wait until he takes Greenland and Panama next.
Can’t ally with China, they’re ontologically evil
And the United States is what?
GrEaTeSt CoUnTrY In ThE wOrLd.
Beautiful Perfect City on a Hill that’s the Beacon of Freedom and Liberty and Delicious Treats
The US allied with the USSR to fight the Nazis. This wouldn’t be much different in my view
The US allied with the USSR to fight the Nazis.
FDR allied with Stalin to fight the Nazis. As soon as Franky kicked it, his VP Truman pivoted into Cold War mode.
Even before then, Red Scare politics in the US was rampant. Prescott Bush, Joe Kennedy, Henry Ford, The Dulles Brothers, Rockerfeller Jr, J. Edgar Hoover and a constellation of anti-communist interests agitated against the alliance with the Soviets from day one of the War.
The real alliance was between the US and UK, with Russia functioning as cannon fodder to pull German troops off the Western Front. Nobody in the West believed Russia could survive a full mechanized invasion, much less repel the Germans and race Eisenhower to Berlin.
The only US/China alliance Americans could stomach would be in similar terms, with the presumption that China would be hollowed out and inconsequential at the cessation of hostilities.
I thought the premise was Europe making an alliance with China against the US…? It wouldn’t matter what Americans could stomach at that point.
As an American, I think a de facto alliance with China is going to be forced upon us anyway (I really think Trump will let them take Taiwan, it just remains to be seen what he’ll ask for), and it will go down easier than attacking a European nation will (Greenland).
Nobody in the West believed Russia could survive a full mechanized invasion, much less repel the Germans and race Eisenhower to Berlin.
AFAIU, the US got involved in Europe specifically to race USSR to Berlin. ie. after USSR was moving forward.
Then you don’t know history. Not surprised that a clanker doesn’t know shit.
Stop taking to me clanker. You have no business trying to talk to one of your divine masters.
We joined the war because Japan attacked us. We were perfectly happy giving the USSR a win, because we saw how badly it went when they lost WWI.
Right, kind of an enemy of my enemy sort of thing. I could definitely see the same thing happening with China in some hypothetical scenarios
Americans wouldn’t stomach it.
China wouldn’t be on the side of the US. They would be backing the opposition
“No sovereign nation is safe”
Indeed! but you’re in the jungle now, baby
I wait until Putin says something I have to agree with. What a world we live in, where the US is suddenly the revisionist state, not complying with world order
Perhaps we’re not used to it blatantly being displayed. This is who the US is, was, and unless addressed successfully, always will be.
When has the US ever cared about “complying with world order”? They’ve set the order for decades and clearly continue to today, as evidenced by the fact that they’ll get away with this with no greater consequence that mild condemnation.
Russia already condemned the US’ actions in this.
The United States is the world order. This is the rules-based order in action - the only rule is “obey the US”.
‘International norms’ like freedom from torture and genocide? Freedom of speech?
Fuck off China, you’re no better than the USA.On the international stage at least, they are much better than the USA. I dont think any country comes close to being how awful the USA has treated the rest of the world.
I don’t think you can get a cigarette paper between them, morally. Tibet, Hong Kong, Uighurs, Taiwan are all things that spring to mind and that’s without having to think about it or do any research.
Arguments that dont require thinking or research surely are reliable.
Taiwan springs to mind? You mean peaceful economic trading? Don’t be ridiculous, the USA yearly murders 500k people through economic sanctions alone, per latest medical research. Compare China’s attitude towards Taiwan and USA’s towards Cuba.
You are perfectly free to dislike any country, including China. But to say it’s ‘no better than the USA’ is pure delusion.
How many countries has the American Empire invaded, completely unprovoked? How many millions of civilians has it slaughtered for no apparent reason? How many elections has it influenced and how many potentially revolutionary alliances ruined?
Sure, China isn’t perfect. Perhaps it’s far from it. But there’s absolutely no comparison to be made between it and the USA. America is currently the single major obstacle standing in the way of world peace. There are others of course, but with the current USA either gone or radically transformed, they’d be relatively minor.
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
You do realize this type of copypasta means absolutely nothing to China and has zero impact on your comment, other than embarrassing yourself with how cringe worthy it is, right?
It’s absolutely not pure delusion. That’s absolutely hyperbole.
There’s no definitive metric for “who is the better country”, because the number of different methods of measuring that are on a similar order of magnitude as the number of crimes committed.
We could go back and forth all day, all week, all year, shouting ‘Tiananmen Square’ and ‘MKUltra’ at each other and prove absolutely nothing, and in the end we would just look like USA and China stans, which I’m not. In this case, China does not have any moral high ground from which to decry the US’s current imperialism, so they can fuck off. I’d be saying the same thing if a US senator complained about China’s genocide of the Uyghurs. They are no better and can fuck off with that.
Note how the response is no longer along the lines of “your record is much worse than the USA’s”
Yeah, I am disappointed that the USA is now no better than China, but it was always very marginal.
I think part of growing up in western media and feeling the decline of it, part of it is certainly seeing ongoing erosion of norms and positive institutions, but a good amount of it is also from disillusionment and learning more about how things have always been, just less apparent. The perceived reality of the western world is much more compromised and complex than when you’re a kid, doesn’t mean the truly good parts aren’t good.
100%. A big part of growing up and taking responsibility is recognising and unlearning the propaganda you were subjected to as a child, if that’s even possible.
as usual. all bark, no bite
China - the do nothing country
doing nothing is fine but stop pretending to be a champion of the global south if that’s what they want
Agree. Just once I’d like them to punch the bully back
China is based!!!
Look up Foxconn slave labor
Look up prison slave labor in the US
What does that have to do with China?
China is basic
The fat mango murderer also took your oil when they seized a tanker. So China, whatcha going to do about it? Seize Taiwan?
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