The season’s ending was pretty disappointing (https://hexbear.net/comment/6743863)
I wonder if Manousos figures out that he can disable the plurb through outbursts and just keeps doing that to one plurb’d node and Carol would have to stop him. If this plot ends up happening I’d be disappointed because I just came up with it in 30 seconds.
Bravo Vince collecting the apple check to do whatever he wants with a sci-fi show that can basically magic any scenario he wants out of thin air and be patted on the back for it.
Also Carol is also just like Diabaté (French speaking dude with the air force one) and only stops when she realizes that she can’t treat the plurb as her own sexual fantasy and slaves.
Manousos is goated only because he envisions a world where the virus is cured. Diabaté is also great because he shares little to nothing about himself and gets to learn a ton from the plurb without them suspecting him (and is actually trying to find a solution to the windfall thing).
Carol shooting at manousos with a shotgun got me heated, white people will always ruin the day.
In any case, I don’t know what angle the show is going for. I guess people called it when it became a christian “lets save the world” type story by someone who only sees the world through ideology.
I think a lot of people are disappointed that the show isn’t prescribing what they’re supposed to be thinking. The snapping scene is a good example. You have this guy come in, trying to take charge, and snapping his fingers at Carol. If you’re hyper aware of sexism, you might read into it that way. But then Carol stands up for herself and tells him stop doing it, then snaps her fingers at him. If you’re hyper aware of racism, you see a rich white lady bossing around a brown guy. To which you get Manny’s sarcastic white person smile and saying please. So is it explicitly about sexism or racism? Not really. It just throws that scene at you and it’s up to you to decide what you’re looking at.
Judging by Bince’s comments about the show, like purposefully making it slow and drawn out, the ambiguity is intentional. He doesn’t want to make a show that you write an essay about “The Subtle Fascism of the Others” and everyone agrees. He wants you to see that it’s okay to think about stuff without getting a solid answer from the creator that it’s okay to think what you’re thinking. Some people would view that as a waste of time. It either means the show is unwilling to take the correct stance on certain issues or that it’s unwilling to interrogate its own premises. With a lack in clarity about what the show is supposed to be doing, people will just fill in their own ideas. Hence why we had a debate in the first few threads about whether or not the hivemind is supposed to represent communism. The creators conscious intention seems to be fighting against internet-ification of media, next to providing a work program for Rhea.
If anything it’s definitely a throwback to the 2006-2014 era of prestige TV.
Personally, I would prefer more sci-fi stuff happening. It was so hard fighting my own preconception of the show as sci-fi thriller. I just want twists and quick pay-offs and more world-building around this hivemind concept.
I don’t know, the premise is really fucked up if we consider that
CW: Sexual violence
Having sex or forcing the plurb to do something you want is tantamount to removed/coercion of the individual, so Carol is aremoved which I think is really difficult to do for a TV protagonist, especially if the intention was not to make a dark horse TV antihero that Bravo Vince has done over and over again.
It was kinda excusable for the first time because it seemed like the plurb was manipulating carol at her most vulnerable and isolated but then she decides to threaten killing manousos who could very well have had the cure for undoing the plurb so she could then sexually assault a (previously married) west Asian woman who is very much sick with a disease that strips her of consent and that will kill most of humanity and permanently stagnate it. Manousos calls her out on this but I think he should have called her a “violadora” (R-word) tbh (it would fit with what he views the plurb as a sickness that’s taken over people) instead of a corny “girl or the world” (Especially when he sees the grave she’s made for helen)
I think the show writers chickened out on this and then tried to do a corny ass “the team is working together” at the end which rubbed me the wrong way entirely.
The eco-fascism alarm bells of Pluribus is ringing too close for comfort.
west Asian woman
Isn’t Zosia Polish? She mentioned that she loved mango ice cream from after the fall of the Berlin wall and saw ships around Gdánsk. The West Asian woman you’re referring to (AFAIK she was in Algeria so North Africa actually
) doesn’t appear again and she had a darker skin tone than Zosia.Oh crap I forgot. Also thanks for mentioning the Berlin wall thing since that’s another pointer to the shows anticommunism, like even more explicitly so.
I think people are overthinking and/or rushing to judgement on limited information when it comes to the consent criticism. Even if they weren’t joined, what does Zosia being married before have to do with her entering a new relationship? Is not being monogamous a moral failing? Of course not. Some people aren’t into that. As for the plurb, there is no ownership even in sex or relationships. There is no more monogamy. At the same time there is nothing but monogamy because it’s one entity with 8 billion appendages. Do the bodies belong to the individual mind that once inhabited it (or still do but are networked to every other mind. if that’s the case then no consent problem)? How does that work? Why does a specific mind own a specific body? What about the people who don’t have bodies anymore like Helen? Her mind is in there. Is Helen existing within the body of Zosia problem? Or have we moved passed everything relatable and normal to our understanding of humanity that new rules need to be invented?
The plurb have a biological imperative to be happy and make others happy. They will say yes to just about any request unless it directly gets in the way of their imperative to spread. That’s not a lack of consent, it’s virtually unlimited consent. You could also describe it as a lack of social boundaries. It makes me think of Williams Syndrome. People with this issue need protection but it’s from other people. Having a rare genetic disorder is about as controllable as getting infected by an alien virus in the air. It’s not necessarily something that needs to be cured just because it’s different from what came before it. Again, we’re in a new paradigm and if we want to make consent an important issue, what about the consent of the hive? Is forcibly separating everyone morally or ethically correct than forcibly joining them? You can say yes because the joining results in human extinction through starvation. But the unjoining can just as easily result in human extinction through climate change or global war. Why is one existential threat that results from a new organization of society better than another?
Now, I think we’re both giving this way more thought than the show currently deserves. The show hasn’t explained anything in depth about how the plurb work. We’re left to fill in the holes ourselves. Unfortunately I think that is intentional and will continue. I don’t think it will ever be explained. If we ever find out that people can’t be unjoined, then I would say we have to leave our own real world biases at the door because it’s a new social order that will have its own contradictions and properties beyond unjoined society.
Generally, I think that if a person can’t possibly withhold their consent, then providing their consent doesn’t count. Much like how the plurbs can’t withhold their consent to do things that are against their own interests, like giving Carol an atom bomb, it stands to reason that they also can’t withhold their consent to sexual acts that, should they be able to say no, they’d otherwise say no.
I guess that gets a bit weird with the “biological imperative” thing.
Like a berry bush can’t withhold it’s consent to have me eat it’s berries, but that’s also literally how it spreads it’s seeds.
Yeah but a berry bush isn’t a conscious being that makes its own decisions.
True but if a hive mind takes over all of humanity is it now it’s own being that has a biological imperative? Even if the bodies it inhabits once were conscious beings. I guess that question lays on whether in individuals within the Plurbs still exist and can be recovered or if they are gone and the Plurb is now the Plurb.
I could press on my particular reading but I guess the show hasn’t revealed enough information to support either possibility here.
i think people take the “it’s possible to disconnect from the hivemind” as meaning the former individuals are controlled puppets, rather than the drop becoming the ocean like DS9’s great link and the show doesn’t seem interested in doing the medium-firmness SF thing of explaining how all that works.
If Tuvix had banged somebody on voyager before janeway murdered him would we be worried about neelix and tuvok’s consent for that?
i think discomfort is valid but the text isn’t directly saying one way or the other and sometimes i kinda hate the lack of rigor in media studies.
Having sex or forcing the plurb to do something you want is tantamount to removed/coercion of the individual, so Carol is aremoved which I think is really difficult to do for a TV protagonist, especially if the intention was not to make a dark horse TV antihero that Bravo Vince has done over and over again.
I guess one thing I wonder is, if the Plurb really is just all of humanity joined together, like it isn’t just an alien virus but just an actual joining of all mind across all bodies, if the collective consents to an action does that mean all bodies in the collective consent? I guess it’s a hard thing to conceptualize as being with individual minds and bodies attached together.
I think the way to think about it is that it may as well be one new person who happens to be distributed across millions of bodies. This person can make their own decisions and pursues their own agenda. However, they also must make themselves and all other humans happy as a biological imperative. If you tell them that not doing something would make you sad, they have to do it. So that’s why I say that when a human interacts with them, they can’t really consent to anything because they have to say yes regardless.
What do you mean by bodies consenting to something? IMO consent is purely a mental thing.
Sorry I think I just worded that wrong.
Like if it really is a hive mind and not just a hive possessing people, then the bodies are part of the one mind. If it’s possessing people then those people still have ownership over their bodies and the hive can’t do anything with their bodies without their consent.
Or maybe I’m wording that wrong. SciFi is hard.
Yeah I get what you mean, then. That’s a tricky question and I think I land on the more conservative side, the bodies ought to still belong to the individuals (despite those individuals now being subsumed) so any interaction with those bodies is violating their autonomy.
Big agree that the show isn’t trying to be prescriptive about anything. I think sometimes they make decisions about how to frame the characters that work against that goal, like today Manousos came across really sinister, but it otherwise doesn’t proselytize.
Wanting more world building in this kind of fiction on tv or film is always a disappointment. It’s something I’ve learned to accept but I do get very frustrated sometimes watching concept films and whatnot having to tell myself that I can’t expect answers.
manousos is a fucking libertarian moron whose entire worldview is immediately exposed as inconsistent when he’s like “okay they’re just better off dead” like okay you can’t take a towel from a rack without leaving a tip but you can just kill all the people? ok guy
Manousos is a man who just saw an invading force take everything from everyone and then offer it back to them as “Charity” and refuses to take that deal. He is the only survivor with any consistent principles beyond self gratification. It isn’t about refusing to harm the people who used to be, it’s about the blob not getting to dictate the terms, something he made abundantly clear when he directly told you that was what he was doing, before burning his car rather than have them transport it.
He will gladly threaten the blob, he will gladly harm the individual parts of the blob, because they are part of the alien invasion, but he won’t let them give him what used to be others because if he takes it he is tacitly accepting that the world is theirs to give. If he pays, if he does it on his premises, then he is not accepting that this is their world. It is still the world of humans, and he will follow the rules of humans.
It isn’t super profound, like he just out says it.that’s libertarian nonsense!
Yeah but at least he’s being a morally consistent libertarian, which basically makes him not a libertarian.
I think someone with his actual worldview would accept he has to use the resources at his disposal to defeat the invaders, but I get him not wanting to accept their help because he’s suspicious it’s all just a trap. Like if he actually took Carol’s word at face value he’d know they can’t lie to him, but he continues to think they’re trying to trick him.
The show doesn’t make that inconsistent when Carol finds out that they’re attempting to send the virus to other planets, or that this virus is a result of previous instances of the virus attempting to spread, or that the virus is only really effective on human-like animals that have the capacity to reverse engineer the transmission.
You can kill the entire plurb just by screaming at them for long enough and if there was no way to reverse it that was feasible or that time was running out on the finite lifespans of the unplurbed then killing them all would protect future human-like inhabitants.
It also doesn’t help that manousos is the only adult who doesn’t fuck the pluribus (whose infected individuals cannot consent). Or the fact that the Pluribus can just sexually assault you (kissing without consent).
The show doesn’t make that inconsistent when Carol finds out that they’re attempting to send the virus to other planets, or that this virus is a result of previous instances of the virus attempting to spread, or that the virus is only really effective on human-like animals that have the capacity to reverse engineer the transmission.
I’m sorry did I miss something, when was that established?
IIRC last episode, the convo with Zosia where they’re looking at the stars.
then killing them all would protect future human-like inhabitants.
this is some rationalist BS, you don’t even know there’s a third planet with life, or that the signal would be detected by a compatible life form, or that they would be careless enough to synthesize the dna and have it break containment like the people in the lab fucking up on protocol.
Its not rationalist BS. When you decide to have a “sci-fi” show like this, making the zombie virus even attempt to spread via interspace transmission means it’s a malevolent force.
There are no more arguments in support of the plurb. They will virtually all die out, consume most of their energy on transmitting a virus that wipes human-like specieses out and then stagnate endlessly or go extinct. Its why the show ends on a triumphant cliffhanger where carol teams up with manousos to “save the world” with an atom bomb.
This show is about zombies not a hivemind (or is it a zombie hivemind?)
you don’t even know there’s a third planet with life
If there can be 2 it’s pretty likely that there’s 3 (and by extension, an arbitrarily large amount). The difficult thing is figuring out what the odds are that planet 3 wasn’t already reached by planet 1, because that’s the narrow slice that you can actually affect by stopping the plurbs.
I think that from Manousos POV it makes sense to do this though. If humans have souls that make us have value, and the souls are taken away by joining, what value is there in the lifeform of the plurbs that ought to be considered? There’s not really any value to them because he sees them as soulless.
He doesn’t know all of that though and even if he did he still persists in his “oh i can’t stay in this empty bed think of its owner” shit
He can’t sleep in the empty bed because he is offered the empty bed by the hivemind (Indirectly, through Carol) and if he accepts the bed he accepts that they have a right to offer it to him, and he does not accept that they have that right.
I think Jenkins is being a bit reductionist, but I do think his whole worldview is a bit too absolutist. If his goal is really to drive off the alien invader I don’t think most humans would begrudge him stealing their car or sleeping in their empty bed. I think most human, even ones with very rigid worldviews, can make that moral calculus of “okay it’s wrong to steal I guess, but if it’s between me taking gas from this empty gas station and earth being overtaken by an alien invader, I think I know which path I’m taking.”
I get him refusing their direct help because he’s inherently suspect of it, but some of the crap he does just seems like him sticking to private property values religiously.
that’s libertarian nonsense
Is it? Maybe. It certainly fits in some ways. But the hivemind took the land, they took the stuff, they took everything, and they can’t undo that by giving him stuff that isn’t theirs, the hive mind has to give back people their autonomy, it has to cease to be an all consuming invading force, or it can never be right. In that way it has some tinges of anti colonialism.
But I think even if he’s just a libertarian spouting libertarian things, that is still a more admirable and interesting character than people who just want to fuck something that can’t consent.
i like manuso’s intensity and will. i mean, when he decided to cross the darien gap, i was like “this guy is not fucking around” for sheer force of will, but his long term commitment to go it completely alone and stay focused on the task for indeterminate lengths of time is so intriguing.
kinda waiting for his backstory, because that is not a common trait.
Carol’s rage only let her go a month and she was wildly destructive and half in the bag the whole time. Manusos is systematically deconstructing a technical problem and doing primary research with a major language barrier.
the way he talked to his mother’s drone felt like a hint, but i hope theres more to it than “shitty parents / attachment disorder”.
This is definitely far more a character drama than it is a sci-fi show, and viewers would do well to remember that Walt, Saul and Kim ended up the villains of Vince’s last two shows.
I’ve swung in different directions throughout the first season and I’ve settled on Carol being a deeply hypocritical and flawed person who has reached the correct conclusion. Manousos I’m fascinated to learn more about, this is not the first conflict we are going to see between them and I strongly reject the idea his character is some kind of libertarian.
I’m enjoying it and glad for the slower pace, can definitely see how this will go for another 3 seasons.
I don’t think he’s gonna be a libertarian explicitly, but he’s a regular-ish petty bourgeois guy from a neoliberal country. He comes across as someone who has a strong moral core, a sense of duty to set the world straight in his eyes. In a way it’s admirable, but I think that the same way we’ve learned about how Carol fails to see past herself and learn why other survivors have a positive attitude about the joining, we could come to see that Manousos is just as close-minded in a way that renders him incapable of addressing the problem the right way. I think his insistence on still paying for stuff, which I think is intended to look more ridiculous than noble, telegraphs that he’s looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. They need to actually create a new world, not to simply go back to the pre-joining status quo.
yeah, i was on the fence a lot about the joining. the hive mind made a really strong case and is very nonthreatening and helpful. and it makes sense that carol would be skeptical, because it killed her person and it has more or less been love bombing her which she is probably hyper vigilant about due to her experiences with the conversion camp, etc.
i have been leaning towards a nefarious or at least cold, calculating logic behind the signal for a while. like ever since it came out they wouldn’t pick fruit. that’s where it started to read like maybe the signal is an efficient kill program to wipe out highly intelligent life but leave biospheres more or less intact.
and that there’s maybe something to the biological imperative of the signal that only works if, on some deeper semi-concious level, the drones believe it is all for the greatest good of life and humanity. so when confronted with highly resistent individuals who they can feel are experiencing intense grief from the collective’s actions, it starts breaking down. not enough to free anyone, but enough that action halts.
but really, i am mostly sucked in due to the human dramas of these characters. lakshmi’s loathing of carol cracks me up. i hope we get more collisions between them.
Guy is legit. I really wanna know his background because he’s clearly seen some shit. He got that look in his eyes
Though he has access to some radio equipment people usually don’t have and is systematic in his pursuit to learn at which frequency they communicate, he otherwise lacks fundamental knowledge of the field. Since he gives himself access to a storage facility it’s not necessarily his own. (Another inconsistency regarding his respect for property.) Also, his office (I presume it’s his) is not rigged the way. (He is no car mechanic either.)
And, first thing someone with some background in medicine and related trades has (or adventure sports practicioner, or nurse…) when facing 20 day+ treck through dense forest is, you’ll be needing at his body composition 20× 2200 kcal in food minimum = about 15–30kg of solid proviant alone without foraging or hunting. Yet he’s embarking with a 15-20 ℓ backpack. So, neither a soldier, nor game warden, nor farmer.
He’s disinfecting his wounds with absolutely the wrong means (don’t do that!), treats it incorrectly (again, don’t imitate), which rules out he were a trained nurse or medic.
Mystery to me where “that look in his eyes” were coming from, unless maybe mild starvation or dehydration.
His name is Manousos Oveido. He is not one of them. He wishes to save the world.
The issue with consent w/ sex makes me very fucking uncomfortable
yeah same tbh
I’m legitimately mad this mid show that treats solipsistic American exceptionalism as a status quo we should want to return to had its deeply incurious protagonist reading one of the greatest sci fi books ever written. Fuck you Vince, you’re not even in the same ZIP code as Le Guin
Also, Manousos is a right wing libertarian crank and I wish him the worst
No, you don’t understand. See, there’s a future Holodomor coming and that means Plurb Bad and you should abandon your entire worldview and root for the self-centered white woman with a drinking problem.
NGL, having slept on it, I’m even more disappointed they didn’t close it out by having Carol be served a cold dessert under a cloche, lifting it up, giving a sniff, and joining. They’re gonna drag this out 2 or 3 more seasons? Fuck that. I just hope I remember my disappointment and not get sucked back in by the inevitable discourse.
No, you don’t understand. See, there’s a future Holodomor coming
their cartoon jainism is not the myth of the holodomor and is not presented that way
and that means Plurb Bad and you should abandon your entire worldview and root for the self-centered white woman with a drinking problem.
carol is frequently depicted as in the wrong. like her and Manousos are the only ones with problems here, and the text isn’t even clear that the hive mind is bad per se.
their cartoon jainism is not the myth of the holodomor and is not presented that way
The Plurb is absolutely revolutionary coded and the biggest drawback people point to for why it’s bad is the famine.
carol is frequently depicted as in the wrong. like her and Manousos are the only ones with problems here, and the text isn’t even clear that the hive mind is bad per se.
Tell that to all the people stanning Carol.🤷
The Plurb is absolutely revolutionary coded
i really don’t see that
the biggest drawback people point to for why it’s bad is the famine.
i don’t think that’s supported in the text, the food issue is a problem to be solved but it’s not the driving force for carol or manousos wanting to un-do the joining.
A violent upheaval in the social order of the world leading to near universal equality (minus the privileged individualists being pampered,) a planned economy, and a society that provides food, shelter, and healthcare for all? Would it help if they renamed Zosia to Fidel? Lol.
And again, the biggest drawback being presented is that ultimately it’s all going to lead to a famine. So to save the world we have to put things back the way it was because it may not be a great system, but it’s the best we’ve got.
it’s just so uninterested in showing us what plurb “society” is like and didn’t show us much of the conflict, it’s hard for me to ascribe anything ideological to the setup.
The picking fruit rule is so goofy. Plants don’t get hurt when you pick fruit they scientifically don’t have a consciousness in any way that can be perceived by humans.
Pluribus stopped being an interesting character drama for me and instead became zombie invasion slop with that one rule alone. Instead of eating peoples corpses they brew them up in a delicious milk explained to you by John Cena.
The show does not want you to see the pluribus as anything other than antagonists. It played fast and loose in the beginning for the sweet TV engagement but it eventually just shuffled itself into predictable tropes.
yes, give me my left hand of darkness!!
Bravo Vince collecting the apple check to do whatever he wants with a sci-fi show that can basically magic any scenario he wants out of thin air and be patted on the back for it.
I dropped off after the first couple of episodes for this reason. It seemed like pseudoprofundity; the premise is pretty much what if everyone in the world got absorbed into a single human blob that just wanted one middle-aged white misanthrope to be happy? That sure is a crazy situation, now time for forty five minutes of artistically arrayed half-empty gin bottles.
I haven’t seen the show but it sounded interesting. Then I read up on it and is this just a new angle on the same anticomunist propaganda?
can someone please coherently describe how it’s anticommunist? the stalin line doesn’t count, it’s accurate to the character.
Anticommunist in that its orbiting around the hivemind genre of anticommunism which goes back to the red scare with films like “invasion of the body snatchers” (1956)
Invasion of the body snatchers had no references to communism or the Cold war, but the subject matter of the film, of conformity vs. Individuality, of being taken over by a unknown force, was fully in line with the themes of the red scare.
Pluribus is anticommunist specifically in that it creates a space where the “individualists” are all bourgeois who live in capitalist, neoliberal countries while the hivemind presents a fatally flawed “collectivity” that the individualists have a moral imperative to fix.
The Stalin line does count. Why choose Stalin and not Hitler? Even when the character of Carol delivers that line, there is no pushback to it. How sure are we that this is simply carols flawed hyperbole from her upbringing in-text or actually just a flourish for the writers on carols “character moment” at the end of the second episode.
Also associating Stalin with mass death has been the top priority for anticommunists since his death. It acts to delegitimize him and his contributions and to prevent people from reading his work itself and not second hand sources criticizing him (because who wants to read the writing of a mass murderer).
The line wasn’t for nerdy commies, it was a dramatic remark to reinforce that communism will not be discussed in any way. Bravo Vince is also a liberal and liberals emit anticommunist brainworms.
prestige tv slop that has an extremely high production value. It’s anticommunist to the extent that Bravo Vince is an anticommunist just like the rest of hollywood.
what if it was PLURibus and they were like that because the virus makes you permanently high on MDMA
Sesbian Lex also included.
May explain why they severely dislike when one is cut off from the hive. Get off that high and it ain’t pleasant withdrawl
Vince haters stay winning
I think this is just the case in capitalism where “successful director who is desired by the big bosses is given a blank check to replicate that success but doesn’t because of the lack of creativity because of the blank check”
Oh it’s from the breaking bad guy? Feeling validated in not watching on general anti-prestige grounds.
I only watched two episodes, probably not going to watch rest
I think the first two episodes, then episode seven are the most bang for your buck (don’t pay for apple tv) if one is just looking for prestige tv slop (they probably blew the budget on those episodes)
Every other episode is slow, boring exposition and character dialogue oh and it shows.
yeah there’s a bunch of really obvious effects shots and it felt kinda cheap especially in the finale which was the only episode i watched sober (binged 1-8 on some weed last week)
No matter what happened the conflict was always gonna keep being “does Carol decide she really wants to reverse the plurbs or not” until she makes that decision. I guess it’s annoying that they’re dragging so much on making Carol make that decision, and the fact that Manousos is being lampshaded as an antagonist because she’s leaning towards loving the plurbs too much. His kinda genocidal language is concerning.
only stops when she realizes that she can’t treat the plurb as her own sexual fantasy and slaves.
Did she? Appears to me that she would keep going if she wasn’t on a time limit. She gave into loneliness and decided consent doesn’t matter that much, I don’t think she really has gone back on that.
+2 on the American white observation.
She only stops when she realizes that her permanent vacation has a time limit. The whole “asking the plurbed Zosia about her life” gives me white sexpat vibes where they ask about their escorts’ lives. Carol is characterized extremely well as a unlikeable chauvinist american that she believes in nothing other than her own gut reactions, but also she’s just unlikeable, I hate seeing her do anything.
His kinda genocidal language is concerning.
TBH, if there was no way to reverse the plurbin then yeah, finding a way to kill all the plurbs (just yell at them for an hour or two) would prevent them from emitting the signal that would plurb other planets. Bravo Vince didn’t really think this one out. The pluribus is bad. They cannot survive. Exterminating the virus is an ethical course of action.
Seeing pluribus as a subversion not of sci-fi stories but of western zombie apocalypse tv. Which is funny because bravo vince said he tried to make the zombies different but they’re not. Most of them are gonna fuckin die because they can’t do any farming. If they just took out the HDP part of the show and the BS rule about agriculture then it would actually be more compelling, but no, just white people zombie apocalypse slop.
Edit: they should have had the end of season stinger be Carol getting plurbed in front of Manousos and him becoming the new protag but rhea seahorn is too valuable we need to pull in the Breaking Saul fans.
I know they won’t but for full artist ferret the show would have to grapple with the plurb being good. Like, suppose there is a sub plot where they deplorable one town and the town has the useual expected ammounts of misfortune and they have to consider how many deaths by misadventure their freedom is worth.
I have a feeling im gonna watch a very long series waiting for some profound moment that’s not gonna come. It will be like watching the sopranos where i become the number 1 biggest hater of the show while everyone else tells me its genius
