Hey all. I’d like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.
I want to preface this by saying this is not in a ‘ceding the issue’ way. Over the past year I’ve been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I’ve internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.
The reason it’s taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.
I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.
The consensus we’ve roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I’ll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we’ll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.
I think at this point we can safely say restoring the emoji is fine. There’s historical context that makes the representation awkward, which is why we had the position we did and I don’t think it was necessarily a wrong position at the time. The last two years have resulted in a lot of shifts on the pros and cons list so to speak.
I think a lot of the reason it’s taken so long to finally have this discussion out had to do with the inertia of having already made a decision and having one of the biggest assholes on the site make it one of his weird personal axes to grind against The Accursed Mods.
The Nakba happened in 1948.
And the great march of return was last trump term! Liberal Zionist brainworms burrowed deep
You called it a “Holocaust emoji” literally an hour before saying it’s fine to have it and it’s just “awkward” representation. That seems like a pretty quick (and major) shift in sentiment, especially considering you gave site bans out for long-time contributors disagreeing with a position you changed your mind on within an hour.
Could you, I don’t know, unban Z and just ignore posts that upset you or disagree with you unless they actually require mod action (like they have slurs or threats in them)? Is it really necessary to ban people for taking a different position than you (even if abrasively)? [and ignoring that you are now saying you are taking the position that the emoji is fine]. Is there no room to extend any form of grace in arguments that ultimately don’t actually harm you?
Holy fucking shit I never knew the site was this corrupt.
My faith in this site’s admins has honestly been in the toilet ever since the URL expiration incident. Nothing surprises me. “Is it incompetence, corruption, or plain flippin’ laziness?” to quote Dan Bull’s “Somebody Call a Doctor!”
This level of behavior warrants at least a demote and long post on self crit. If users aren’t supposed to walk away from mistakes, why shouldn’t moderators(or admins) be held to a higher standard?
The last time a mod “self-crit,” it was some self-indulgent post about how they’re 100% right and the unwashed user masses ain’t shit.
What else is there to ask for? You know as well as I do that its unlikely to even get a self crit post at all, much less anything more.
Wow that was only nine months ago? Feels like way longer
Oh wow, I’d forgotten about REgon
I Remember that one
My sentiment has not shifted on this point at all. My feelings have for this entire time been that there just isn’t a great resolution to any of this that wouldn’t upset people. You either have an emoji that draws visual comparison to the generational trauma of the holocaust, or we have to obscure the visuals which also cedes the Star of David to Zionists.
My describing it as a Holocaust emoji was glib and I apologize for that, but my point was that is an optically upsetting emoji given the context of the holocaust, which was the explicit reasoning why the israel-cool emoji switch happened in the first place.
I did not ban Zposter, and Zposter was absolutely not banned for his position on the emoji.
Please do more self crit to earn back some goodwill with the community
Also see prof owls comments to see why your protective feelings toward the Israeli flag aren’t compelling to the majority of users
Being banned for “PLEASE TOUCH GRASS AND ORGANIZE” is pretty fucked up too. That truly applies to literally every person posting on a forum, but sure, ban someone for being a jerk but admins like you can tell people to fuck off, you can say you’re playing whac a mole with assholes (but it wasn’t you who banned Z), and call a burning zionist flag a Holocaust emoji, and that’s not hostility?
Come on, half the people on this site get hostile the moment they are in argument, but who gets banned is pretty inconsistent. People are way too obsessed with seeing a mod action whenever they don’t like something they’ve read. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve responded to call out some shitty comment only for a mod to remove it even though I never report it. Unless it’s outright threatening or bigoted, there’s no need to erase everything you don’t want to see. People can block it, or we can hash it out. What is the point of talking to people if they’re only ever allowed to agree with you or one of you has to go?
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