I’m pretty sure Ukraine was not killing ethnic Russians in Ukraine before Russia invaded Ukraine. In fact I don’t think Ukraine is killing ethnic Russians in Ukraine now - except for Russian soldiers who are trying to grab Ukrainian land by force and ultimately destroy the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

Why do you think it’s morally correct to invade a country, murder its soldiers and civilians, and try to grab its land?

I will assume good faith of your post. But I have a question. Do you think Russia is also “not compatible with the human species”? After all, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, and is still waging that invasion right now.

Note: my last reply to you asking a similar question was removed by a mod because of “rule 8”. I assume that’s this one:

No sectarianism, also when engaging with your fellow users please take the most charitable interpretation and assume good faith.

I am trying to comply with that rule. I just genuinely would be interested to hear what you think of other global military actions that have a similarity to what the US has just done in Venezuela.

Removed by mod

Removed by mod

This view might be controversial but here goes. If someone is suspected of a major crime (rape, serious assault, murder, major theft), maybe it’s okay for law enforcement to gain access to that person’s online accounts.

People might say “but if the government has the power to do that, one day they could do it to you, or they could use those powers to oppress anybody who criticises the government”. But isn’t that like saying “if you build prisons then one day an authoritarian government might put any critic of the government in those prisons”?

I did in fact address your drivel repeatedly

Where? You implied that Ukrainian “officials” have been “proudly posing in front of nazi symbols while in office”. In reality you just showed that some Ukrainian fighters have displayed far-right symbols, but as I showed, there have been fighters on the Russian side who have displayed far-right symbols too. Neither case means that the Ukrainian or Russian governments themselves are necessarily fascist (but I think the Russian government is closer to fascism, given their worse record regarding democracy and liberalism).

they openly say that they follow Bandera ideology

No they don’t. In 2022, after Russia’s launched their renewed invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy fired Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany, because the ambassador had made controversial comments about Bandera in an interview (he had said “Bandera was not a mass murderer of Jews and Poles”). Ukraine’s foreign ministry stated that they did not agree with the ambassador’s remarks: “the opinion that the ambassador… expressed in an interview with a German journalist is of his own and does not reflect the position of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine”.

So clearly it’s not true that the Ukrainian government “openly say[s] that they follow Bandera ideology”. In fact they are not tolerating comments that could be seen as supportive of Bandera.

literal nazi battalions like Azov

Let’s look at a different view of Azov:

Michael Colborne, who wrote a book about the Azov movement and leads Bellingcat’s work on the global far right, said the unit’s focus appears to have shifted over time from ideology to military effectiveness.

He said that any remaining far-right elements within Azov probably would continue to be “diluted” as the unit grows and that the issue had become less important as Ukraine confronts an existential threat.

I think Bellingcat are a reliable source for things like this. They’re the same people who identified the two Russian military intelligence officers who carried out the 2018 poisoning in Salisbury, England.

None of this is happening in Russia

I looked up a bit more about the neo-Nazi, pro-Russia Rusich Group which I previously mentioned. Apparently they are “a Wagner Group contingent” (that source is yet another to describe Rusich as “neo-Nazi”). Let’s remember that Wagner were funded by the Russian state. So the Russian state has been funding neo-Nazis to fight for Russia.

In fact, Russia has been the country that has put out UN resolutions on combating fascism, and the countries that voted against it were the US and Ukraine

You should probably try to understand a bit better how propaganda works. Then you will realise why Russia does things like this.

you’re just really dedicated to making a clown of yourself

Not at all. I am showing you real facts and reliable assessments. So now the question is, can you refute any of what I’ve said? If you want to stop here, like you said, then that’s fine. What it means is that you have failed to demonstrate that the Ukrainian government is fascist. As I said before, I think Russia’s government is closer to fascism than Ukraine’s government is, due to Russia’s less democratic political system, and Russia’s less liberal laws (e.g. LGBT laws).

You’re saying Ukraine is run by fascists but you didn’t address the points I previously raised which, I think, demonstrate that Ukraine’s government is not fascist. If anything, Russia’s government is closer to fascism than Ukraine’s is. I’ll quote what I said before to see if you can actually refute it this time:

Here’s what Encyclopaedia Britannica says about fascism:

Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Both Ukraine and Russia are quite militaristic at the moment due to the war (which was started by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine). But when it comes to democracy and liberalism, I would say Ukraine embraces those ideas more than Russia currently does. Shortly after Russia’s renewed 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy applied for Ukraine to join the EU. The EU is an institution which supports democracy and liberalism, and while it might not always perfectly pursue those ideals, I would say it is definitely more democratic and liberal than Putin’s Russia is. Russia throws protestors in prison with long sentences. Russia has poisoned dissidents such as Alexander Litvinenko, Alexei Navalny, and likely Vladimir Kara-Murza. Russia has been anti-liberal in recent years, demonstrated by their anti-LGBT laws.

Can you actually demonstrate that Ukraine’s current government is a fascist government, and crucially, can you demonstrate that it is closer to fascism than Russia’s government is? If you say “oh look here are some Ukrainian soldiers with far-right symbols”, then guess what, I already showed you some Russian soldiers with far-right symbols. So that argument would not show that Ukraine’s government is closer to fascism than Russia’s is.

Let’s say there are some far-right Ukrainian fighters. That doesn’t mean all Ukrainian soldiers are far-right or fascists; nor does it mean that the Ukrainian government is fascist. On the Russian side, there appear to be some neo-Nazi fighters, but that doesn’t mean that Putin is automatically a Nazi.

Here are some articles which talk about far-right and apparently neo-Nazi Russian fighters:

• What we know about neo-Nazis in the Russian army (BBC News)
• German intelligence showed “Russian neo-Nazis” who are fighting in Ukraine (BBC News)
• Numerous neo-Nazis are fighting for Russia in Ukraine (Der Spiegel)

In fact, that first article features a photo, shown below. You can see a patch on the soldier’s arm, which features a Kolovrat, a symbol that is popular with far-right Slavic movements. The patch resembles what the article describes as the symbol of the Rusich Group (“a twisting wheel - the pagan sign of the sun, one of the other symbols of the DSRG ‘Rusich’”), and the article describes this group as containing “neo-Nazis”. Wikipedia also describes the Rusich Group as a “neo-Nazi” group.

Here is a different source which says the Rusich Group “holds extreme right-wing, neo-Nazi beliefs”.

TLDR: It’s weird that you seem outraged by far-right Ukrainians, but not outraged by far-right Russians.

I hope the US doesn’t invade other countries. But I would say I can be wary of both the US and China at the same time.

You can throw around insults like a baby can throw their toys out of a pram, but you’re not really saying anything substantive.

It’s Ukraine and not Russia where open fascists are in charge of the government

Is Zelenskyy a fascist? Here’s what Encyclopaedia Britannica says about fascism:

Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Both Ukraine and Russia are quite militaristic at the moment due to the war (which was started by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine). But when it comes to democracy and liberalism, I would say Ukraine embraces those ideas more than Russia currently does. Shortly after Russia’s renewed 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Zelenskyy applied for Ukraine to join the EU. The EU is an institution which supports democracy and liberalism, and while it might not always perfectly pursue those ideals, I would say it is definitely more democratic and liberal than Putin’s Russia is. Russia throws protestors in prison with long sentences. Russia has poisoned dissidents such as Alexander Litvinenko, Alexei Navalny, and likely Vladimir Kara-Murza. Russia has been anti-liberal in recent years, demonstrated by their anti-LGBT laws.

they’re literally posing in front of nazi symbols

I think I said in a previous post that there are far-right people in many countries, including in Russia. See here and here. Here is an instance of Nazi symbols in France, but that doesn’t mean France is ruled by a “fascist regime”. It likely just indicates that there are some far-right people in France.

I think you misspelled Russia because Russia is the country that doesn’t have free and fair elections and which is waging an imperialist war, supported by far-right figures like Dugin. Ukraine is currently not having elections due to the invasion of their country, but the last few elections they did have seem to have been much more democratic than Russia’s “elections”.

Russia and China don’t set the time that I go to bed…

Anyway, I think Russia should withdraw their invasion of Ukraine and allow Ukrainians to make their own democratic decisions. If Ukrainians want more integration with Russia then okay, or if they want to join NATO and the EU then okay.

I’m talking about Lemmy.ml specifically. Some people on that instance might be sensible and smart. But then there’s people like you who defend authoritarian and imperialist behaviour by Russia and China for some reason.

Literally nobody here is buying what you’re selling

Doesn’t surprise me that Lemmy.ml lacks common sense.

You don’t have any argument other than “Ukraine bad”. You can point out some far-right members of Ukraine’s military, and sure, such people might exist, but I expect there are some far-right people within the militaries of most countries.

In Russia you have a character like Aleksandr Dugin strongly supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Dugin has been described by WaPo and the WSJ as “far-right”. People like him are driving the invasion of Ukraine.

You support a far-right invasion of another country but maybe you are too stupid to even understand what you’re supporting.

People who are pro-Russia have alleged “human rights abuses” supposedly committed by Ukraine towards Russians or Russian-speaking people in Ukraine. Something I find interesting though is that the ICJ, the UN’s court, said this:

the Court is not in possession of evidence substantiating the allegation of the Russian Federation that genocide has been committed on Ukrainian territory

Maybe Russia should prove their allegations. I don’t think you’re interested in the truth though. I think you’re interested in a fascist conquest of Ukraine’s land.

My view is that Ukrainians and Russians should be able to live in peace in their respective countries. So that would mean that Ukraine should not be invaded, Russia should not be invaded, and no other country should be invaded.

But unfortunately Putin and his colleagues decided to invade Ukraine and murder people there. I definitely don’t blame average Russians for that. Not in any way. Many Russians clearly don’t support Putin, but if they are brave enough to voice this view, they can be put in prison for many years, or in fact the Russian state may poison them.

You can pretend to be moral all you like, but if you support Russia’s murderous invasion of Ukraine (which seems to be true), then you are immoral.

You were the one who raised the fact that Putin supposedly has a high approval rating. You literally brought that point up yourself.

Whatever. You love sucking vatnik cock, so whatever. Go ahead and do that.

Ukraine has been in a civil war

Apparently Putin denied for a long time that any Russian forces were fighting in eastern Ukraine, trying to split eastern Ukraine from the rest of Ukraine, but then in 2015 Putin admitted that some Russians were in eastern Ukraine “dealing with certain tasks, including in the military sphere”. This was after two members of Russian special forces were captured in eastern Ukraine.

Remember of course that Russia has a history of doing covert things and denying those things. They poisoned Alexander Litvinenko in 2006, they poisoned Sergei Skripal in 2018, they poisoned Alexei Navalny in 2020, yet they denied doing all those things. What I’m getting at is that Russia is probably doing lots of things that we’re not even aware of. They were probably employing every underhanded tactic they could in order to split the Donbas from Ukraine.

But Putin undoubtedly has reaped the rewards of a political landscape tilted dramatically in his favor

Of course the political landscape is tilted in his favour. Alexei Navalny was a prominent opposition politician and look what happened - the Russian state poisoned him in 2020. Boris Nadezhdin tried to be an opposition candidate in last year’s Russian presidential election, and he wanted Russia to end its invasion of Ukraine. Surprise surprise, reasons were found to disqualify Boris from standing in the election.

The Levada Center, a non-governmental polling organization, consistently reports Putin’s approval rating at over 80%

Not surprising in any way, given that expressing political dissent in Russia will get you arrested, or poisoned, or killed (Navalny was poisoned, Litvinenko was killed). There are probably many Russians who would like a different president to Putin, but they know that if they express their views, they may well be punished.

I think I’ll look at some assessments of democracy in Ukraine and Russia which are a bit more objective:

Ukraine:

The 31 March 2019 presidential election in Ukraine was competitive, voters had a broad choice… Fundamental freedoms were generally respected

Russia:

The 18 March presidential election took place in an overly controlled legal and political environment marked by continued pressure on critical voices… restrictions on the fundamental freedoms of assembly, association and expression, as well as on candidate registration, have limited the space for political engagement and resulted in a lack of genuine competition