• lagrangeinterpolator@awful.systems
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    4 hours ago

    Of course there are people trying to find a silver lining to this by conjuring up the hypothetical scenario where a student only uses the AI to aid in learning the material instead of just doing all the work.

    First, any convenience in learning the material just reduces your ability to learn it. The friction involved with learning may seem like an inconvenience to be smoothed away, but it turns out that the friction is how learning happens. It’s called engaging with the material. This has been the case with previous technologies: handwriting is better for retaining memory than typing (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11943480/), although it seems like AI is on an entire new level. (I guess there is some commentary about the sadly common worldview that life is about avoiding inconveniences. I feel like this mindset draws a lot of people to AI.)

    Second, there is a very thin line between “helping” you learn the material and just doing the work for you. The temptation to cut corners is always there, and when you have the Corner Cutting Machine at your disposal, you are kidding yourself if you think you will have perfect discipline. Tools influence behavior.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      You know what i don’t ever see? People arguing AI helped them become a better athlete…

      turns out there are no shortcuts for that, unless they are drugs… which is generally considered cheating and comes with horrible and dangerous side-effects…

      • gerikson@awful.systems
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        3 hours ago

        AI is PEDs for the brain except they don’t actually enhance performance or make you feel good

  • Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
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    5 hours ago

    PISA data show that students who use AI for specific schoolwork tasks, such as summarising texts, drafting or conducting research, attain lower scores in science than students who do not use AI. In these scenarios, students who do not use AI outperform those who do, on average, by around 20 points – equivalent to being around one year of schooling ahead of their peers. However, weekly users of AI for general purposes have similar performance outcomes to non-users. Students who regularly use AI for general purposes, and have learning opportunities at school to develop AI literacy skills, tend to have slightly higher scores in science. However, these opportunities are more common among socio-economically advantaged students, risking a growing AI divide.

  • jaschop@awful.systems
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    9 hours ago

    I expect we’re gonna hear more about the cherry-picked data points that aren’t atrocious for AI. Like specifically the “help me learn” usage stat (the only one where some AI users are on par or better), and the even more specific “help me learn” usage with AI/media literacy discussed in class stat.

    There’s probably all kinds of interesting factors involved that had to be ignored because they needed an AI fluff statistic. Like the one fact they mention, that high AI-use and partly non-AI use correllate with curiousity. Kids who want information will use the tools given to them, and those are often LLMs. If your teachers are into AI and discuss it in class, even more so. I expect the “once or twice a year”-users (who bottom out every chart) to include a big bulk of kids that just do not care about education (often coming from unpriviliged households), so they use it to cheat on their assignments and call it a day.

    Pretty undeniable though, that the daily users are always worse than the sometimes users. That’s probably the habitual delegation of thought kicking in. I could accept that a subgroup of the AI users learns on par or sliiiightly better than non-users on average, but they might be building up a reliance on tooling that will serve them worse and worse once they get past well-trodden school problems. In the same vein they’re probably all getting fucked, because noone gives a fuck about good text books & reference materials anymore.

  • self@awful.systems
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    14 hours ago

    maybe this is the wrong thread to not read the article and just sit there and goon about how the thing with empirically bad outcomes is “just a tool”

  • OwOarchist@pawb.social
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    20 hours ago

    Now for the big question:

    Did AI make these students stupid, or is it just selection bias because the stupid students are more likely to use AI?

    • 18107@aussie.zone
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      18 hours ago

      I suspect it’s a bit of both.

      We have plenty of evidence that states that practice is an excellent learning tool. We also know that AI removes the need for practising thinking by providing immediate answers for everything.

      We also have evidence of students making the poor decision to cheat instead of learning, so it’s logical to assume the same type of student would turn to AI.

      • Serinus@lemmy.world
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        16 hours ago

        They can skip doing their homework without the immediate consequences of skipping their homework.

    • jtrek@startrek.website
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      15 hours ago

      I also think it’s both.

      The ones who were already stupid are more likely to use AI, because that’s a stupid decision.

      But some students were probably fine, but using the AI atrophied their thinking skills.

  • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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    20 hours ago

    ‘AI’, as Artificial Intelligence, is yet to be demonstrated, and the opinion of anyone convinced it has needs to be summarily dismissed, and if they persist, ridiculed.

    LLMs are a chipper and solvent of competency and credibility, which is a problem when used by someone attempting to build and develop them.

      • self@awful.systems
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        15 hours ago

        Doesn’t mean it’s not really useful and amazing tech.

        you’re not tall enough for this ride

        the fuck is bringing all you shitheads to this thread of all things?

      • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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        15 hours ago

        I never claimed it wasn’t artificial, my argument is that it’s not intelligent.

        And what does “… are a chipper and solvent of competency…” mean?

        My observation from having to deal with entities which have had exposure to LLMs, is any competency or credibility they may have had, is eroded proportionally to their level of exposure. It’s equivalent to experiencing a traumatic brain injury.

        Losing cognitive ability is bad enough, but it’s devastating when they never possessed it to begin with.

      • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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        19 hours ago

        Skill is acquired with use over time.

        LLMs can be scalpels, but they’re currently being used as sledgehammers. Wielded in the right hands, they can appear to work magic, but they haven’t been available long enough for anyone to legitimately claim meaningful competence.

        And none of it can possess or present comprehension, which for me is a requirement for intelligence.

        • Architeuthis@awful.systems
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          11 hours ago

          LLMs can be scalpels

          As in better suited for performing very fine tasks? It’s literally the opposite, being everything machines is their main feature, either in terms of churning out endless text at the vaguest provocation or by being a natural language intermediary between the user and the actual scalpel-like tools, that it then wields like a sledge hammer by forcing endless iterations until something sticks.

          Wielded in the right hands, they can appear to work magic

          Wielded in the right situation more like, which varies between models and can’t be a priori known.

        • 18107@aussie.zone
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          18 hours ago

          The big problem with AI is that it removes the need (or perceived need) to perform the task that AI is replacing. This means that using AI will gain you no skill or knowledge of that task, and the skills and knowledge in the task is the only way to verify if the AI is giving the correct output.

          In short, AI is actively removing from it’s users the one thing needed for it to be used effectively.