- cross-posted to:
- usa@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- usa@midwest.social
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Can’t take that on the freeway. Can’t take that on cross- country Road trips. Can’t sleep in it overnight to save money on a hotel.
You save about $12k/yr by not owning a car. You can afford a hotel with what you save. Who can afford the gas for a cross country road trip? It’s not the 90’s. The vast majority of normal trips never go on the freeway. For $12k/yr you can just pay for a taxi for that.
Want a road trip? Try a train. Cross country trains are actually affordable and really interesting adventures. You get to meet interesting folks, actually look at the environment (since you aren’t driving), and you aren’t risking killing yourself or others in the process. You also aren’t destroying that environment. It’s just all around a better deal.
Okay you stand by your lifestyle, I’ll stand by mine. Full disclosure: I live in a huge high roof van which means I haven’t had to pay rent or mortgage or utilities or property taxes or HOA fees etc for 6 years. I run on solar, and the government still hasn’t found a way to suck money out of me for the solar panels I have on my roof. Although I earn very little money I’ve got thousands of dollars in the bank because my expenses are so minimal.
I can live anywhere I want. Currently parked right next to the ocean. Sometimes I live in Oregon, sometimes I live in Colorado. Sometimes I live in Washington DC. I’ve driven across the USA five times and don’t need hotels, trains, buses, or uber.
I have everything I need in this van, all my clothes, all my electronics, a full kitchen, bathroom.
Confident that I live more economically & more adventurous & more fun & enjoy more geographical variety than bicyclists who live in apartments or houses ☺️
Oh and I have three different kinds of bicycles too. One of them has three wheels so technically not a bicycle 🤷🏼♀️
You stand by your lifestyle, I’ll stand by mine.
Grandma is 71 and not in the best of health.
“I knew that she probably wasn’t gonna be able to bicycle very far on her own,” Poole said.
She chose a Bunch front-loader, a model with two front wheels and a box large enough for an adult to sit in, so Grandma wouldn’t miss anything.
“We rode her around the parking garage a little, and she was like, ‘This is the bomb diggety.’”
Grandma sounds like such a cutie
sometimes taking the extreme step of replacing a car with a cargo bike
This is not extreme.
Extreme is when you choose to use a fossil fuel car during the climate catastrophe.
Lots of places the nearest Costco is 10+miles away.
What’s your point?
Wait, are you saying carrying multiple tons of steel every time you need milk is extreme?
yeah but!!! the rain, it’s wet!! and stuffs! Oh !! and red lights ! checkmate
there are DOZENS of us!
Quite a lot more I think. Not everybody needs a cargo bike, but they’re really amazing for moving a couple young kids a couple miles
A second car has an annual upkeep cost of $8,000, while a cargo bike can be purchased for $3,000
Kinda sad they didn’t say the annual upkeep costs of a cargo e-bike
AAA estimated that it was over 12k in 2024. I doubt that price has gone down.
It’s like maybe $200 if you ride a lot and less if you do any of your own work… Which you can because it’s a bike.
Huh, I would expect a yearly tune up to cost $100-200 in labor only.
If you don’t do your own work, I’d estimate $1,000 per year in average maintenance for a good cargo e-bike that’s used daily.
The first one is usually like 6 weeks to 3 months and it’s free. The next one is usually half price. Here’s my receipt for our 3 year after a lot of hard riding:
This is the most expensive bill we’ve had. This year we had to replace the drive train. It was €90.
That bike is only 6k. Why would it cost 1k/yr? It’s not a car.
Edit: I lied. I found a bill for like €407. During that service we added a €200 bike alarm. The other year was €161.
And technically, the total cost of ownership is a bit higher. Total replacement insurance for us is like €60/mo or something. But again, you could do absolutely no work on your bike, throw it in the canal, and buy a new one every year, and you’d still be able to buy an extra bike on top of replacing your old one every year with the money you save not having a car.
That insurance cost is CRAZY. That’s 1% of the cost of your bike every month. I.e. you’ll have paid your bike in insurance premium in 8 years. This policy is only valuable if you expect your bike to need “total replacement” which I assume means it’s stolen, more than every 8 years?!
Just put that money in an account and you can buy a new bike every 8 years for “free” as your insurance policy.
Yeah, we live in a high theft area of Amsterdam. They also pay total replacement with no deductible. We’ve actually already come out ahead when my other bike was stolen.
The rate is actually variable based on theft data in the area. It’s gone up a lot recently, it might go back down. It was ranging between 68 and 71 for an the bakfiets and a regular omafiets.
Their service is also great. It was like less than a week turn around when my other bike was stolen. It’s worth it.
We haven’t owned a car in years, so bikes are our primary transport. We can’t really afford to be without them, so it’s kind of worth it given the situation.
Edit: it also covers bike rental, and it covers damage as well as theft.
Okay. I mean that’s valid if you expect to have a bike stolen every 8 years the math checks out.
I like the spin here. Headline should be “Most working middle-class citizens pushed out of the market for new vehicles”.
You can buy two good cargo bikes a year for the average total cost of ownership of a car. When so many trips are within bike range, why would you not do this?
I would choose the healthier option (the cargo bikes). I just don’t want to be corralled down a cattle chute where there are no other options. I would also use my vehicle to haul the elderly around, if required (not a cargo bike).
We still need to fill edge cases. Hiking is really big where I live but you can’t take public transit to more than one or two trailheads, and certainly not some of the more remote ones.
I desperately want a nonprofit carshare in my area to fill the gap for this as well as occasional things like moving lots of stuff. Without a cost effective way to get a car when you really need one, people will own a car for edge cases. And when you have a car sitting there… you’ll drive it even when you don’t need to.
Sometimes it’s a lot easier than you think to be the change you want to see. You might be amazed at how far you get before you run into significant roadblocks.
There’s a nonprofit rideshare in Ithaca, NY for inspiration! https://www.ithacacarshare.org/
Sounds like you have a project. :P
How much groceries can you fit on a bike? I usually leave with 4 or 5 large bags, and I’m single.
Bag size varies a lot so an absolute number doesn’t really help much. 4/5 bags sounds like an insane amount of food for 1 person, so I suspect the bags we get are bigger.
My regular bike has 70L of storage in pannier bags. Cargo bikes will be holding hundreds.
4/5 seems insane
How many times do you go get groceries each week though?
Once. Hence my thinking they must be small
About 2 weeks worth for 1 person, about 1 weeks worth for 2 people. On just a normal bicycle with 4 panniers. A cargo bike can double that.
Once you hit large families, you can have multiple people biking to the grocery store together.
Our Urban Arrow fits 3, maybe 4 kids (ours are 7 and 4, and their friends). We literally moved our entire apartment with that bike.
We also have a cube hybrid longtail. I’ve put maybe 6 bags of groceries in the side saddle, with my front still open and two kids on the back.
One of the hardest parts of these articles is that I love hearing about them, hearing how much people are making progress and change, until I see the locations. I love seeing that a metropolitan area has this, and it warms my heart to see people able to make progress.
My bike is not a cargo bike, just a normal city bike with bags on it, which is satisfactory for the 3 miles of highway I have to bike to the nearest store, and then 3 miles back, ever since the one that was closer had closed down. I do this at night, or first in the morning, as where I live during the daytime it reaches over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, over 39 degrees Celsius.
🚗🚶🚲
“Car” “go” “bike”
lolUntil October. Then comes the snow.
Brother, we rarely get snow in October even before climate change started really messing with things. Used to be mid-to-late November for first snow pack, now it’s mid December and it’s a toss up if we’ll even keep the snow pack all winter now.
Anyways, people still bike in the winter here.
Fins and Swedes bike, you’re just cowards. The Dutch bike all year. Freezing rain in the face sucks, but it’s better than literally destroying my children’s future.
Edit: I live in the Netherlands and bike year round because we do not own a car (family of 4, for the record). Wear a fucking jacket. You’re not made of sugar.
your not made of sugar
have you seen the standard american diet, they kind of are
I remember Dutch cycling under the rain, talking with the phone in one hand, umbrella in the other and wearing heels.
They are crazy, in the right way. I miss how bike centric Groningen was when I moved out.
Don’t you have a coat?
Never been to twin cities but I’ll do groceries via bike in winter. Its a snow bike though.
Yes, fat tire bikes are very popular here in the twin cities.
If the conditions are okay for a car to drive, any decently prepared cyclists won’t have a problem.
Eh, usually the snow doesn’t stick until late November. We’ll get some freakish pop-up storms but it will generally melt away until around Thanksgiving.
And even in the winter, we have very good road crews to keep conditions pretty navigable all told.
