Part 2: what if you found out their diagnosis 1 week after birth
Abortion is fine no matter what, but in particular for this case yes; Down’s syndrome isn’t the almond eyed happy somewhat simple child that Facebook memes make it out to be. They can have awful congenital heart disease, they have a much larger chance of getting leukemia, and they age seemingly twice as fast, a Down’s syndrome person in their forties is incredibly frail. They’re happy enough people and can often enjoy a good quality of life, there’s a guy who is a bartender in Buffalo at a Mexican restaurant who makes amazing drinks, for one, and there’s nothing wrong with having a child with Down’s if you want, but if you find out you are pregnant with a baby with Down’s you really should see medical genetics and have a fetal echo and maternal fetal medicine and ensure you make a decision that works for you. There are Down’s syndrome babies who never leave the hospital because of the comorbidities.
If it’s ethical to abort just because you don’t want the kid (and it is), then it’s ethical to abort for any reason.
Also, it’s no one’s business why people choose to abort.
it’s no one’s business why people choose to abort.
This. The only answer to “why” is “fuck off”, and for so many reasons. It’d suck to agonize over the decision, and once it’s made to then be second-guessed by some rando.
I mean more like “is a life of suffering worth living and would a parent want that for their kid” rather than the ethics of abortion
Preventing incurable pain and suffering to a conscious being is ethical. There is dignity in both life and death.
In my country it is legal to abort just because you don’t want the kid, but illegal to abort for a certain specific reason (the parents not wanting a girl). This is because people might abort daughters if they are poor and think that girls are less likely to get jobs.
I feel that the Down’s Syndrome case is similar. There are people with Down’s Syndrome who lead happy lives, and genetically ‘normal’ people who lead miserable lives. So of course a mother has the right to abort a foetus. But I fear that if we normalise aborting children on genetic grounds, that could lead to eugenics.
It’s kinda besides the point. If a woman wants an abortion she should get an abortion. Downs syndrome or not, it doesn’t matter.
I don’t mean in a her body her choice kinda way, I mean is it more ethical to let them live their natural life knowing that they would possibly suffer immensely vs not letting them live a life at all
So you’re asking should all prior with special needs be terminated so they don’t suffer? Should all poor people?
Kinda slippery slope there tbh…
I think that anyone who isn’t ready to be a parent should have that option not to. Special needs or not. Forced birth and zero support after is terrible.
Personally I think having children as a whole is unethical 🤷♂️
I think it’s ethical to abort if your fetus is perfectly healthy.
I don’t know about the ethics, but forcing people to carry to term a baby with a significant developmental disability is unconscionable to me. It is very likely to ruin their marriage, finances, sanity, life, but the people that manage to do it are saints.
Can’t really say for part 1 but for part 2 it’s definitely not abortion anymore after birth so that is unethical in my opinion.
Every time you don’t want to have a kid for whatever reason is ethical to abort.
What’s not ethical is to have a child you don’t really want.
Without doubt.
Part 2: nope. Get used to changing babies.
As fucked up as it sounds, if it’s early enough that there isn’t any chance of it being considered alive, I’d let the family decide whether or not to do it on their own because not every family is capable of that type of constant care and/or affording the bill to pay someone to help.
As for a week after birth, as fucked up as it sounds, if you truly cannot afford the constant care, then probably putting them up for adoption to a family that can afford the care is better, IMO, than not being able to afford to care for said child and having potentially seeing them die from lack of care you cannot afford.
Sometimes you need to make hard decisions to keep afloat financially.
Have you guys spent much time around people with Down’s syndrome? It’s typically not a uniform “life of suffering” like what many comments seem to be assuming.
It’s fair enough to try to imagine how you would feel if you had a certain disability, but never assume you’re right about that, you might be surprised. Especially with intellectual differences, I don’t think you can really know what it would be like to be that person.
My SO brother doesn’t have downs but was severe brain damaged at at young age. His whole family doesnt hate him they just wish he was better. After grandma died he lost the last person that really loved him for who he is. Everyone dreads is presence and dealing with his backpack of medication or fits of dangerous rage due to frustration understanding things from a bloke 2x their size (literally 2 meters tall).
I spoke to him enough to know he is not happy in state care but no one can handle him when things go wrong. He is a effectively 5 year old child stuck and unable to grow and alone with only his handlers. No one should have that fate if its preventable.
Yes, in my experience, aquired brain injury is one of the hardest things for people (and their families) to adapt to, but that’s a whole different kettle of fish than Down’s syndrome.
The post talks about the ethics of pre-emptively aborting a fetus that has a high likelihood of "severe downs syndrome ", and this is something many people face irl ask the time. my point is (mainly) that people with Down’s syndrome can have a lot of joy in their lives, and bring a lot of joy to those around them, despite the fact that they will face certain struggles (as so many of us do, in our own ways). And (secondly), although it’s outside the scope of the hypothetical situation in the op, foetal tests for Down’s syndrome are notoriously unreliable.
I’m just saying don’t be afraid. Most new parents want to avoid any chance of anything ‘wrong’ with their child, but nearly everyone has something…
Source: have worked with children and adults with a variety of physical and intellectual disabilities, and in my own friends and family know (and care for) a multitude of neurodiverse people and those with chronic mental illness or addictions.
I guess I dont see the difference since in the end they both result in humans being alone and dependent on a system to take care of them.
In this case, the brother’s care was nail in coffin facturing his family, then add in the psychology pain my SO had growing up with him, and the stress my partner feels thinking about being responsible for him after parents die when he calls regularly and just talks about how unhappy he is every time, its impossible for me to accept letting anything similar occur when you could just not let it happen.
I guess my point is if its preventable, stop your fellow humans from a life of suffering because its not just 1 person suffering but the people around them.
I think it’s ethical to abort any baby. It’s parasitic on the host, if you don’t consent to the idea how is it any worse than getting a flu vaccine
If you don’t think you can provide a better life for your kid than state care could I see putting it up for adoption to be ethically mandatory
Doctor wouldn’t know how severe.
Down syndrome is regular DNA but one extra copy that interferes randomly with the building of the body.
Every kid is different.
The doctor told us the fetus might have issues based on growth. We didn’t care.
My son was born with down syndrome. The doctor we had said he may not talk much, may not move much, etc.
He will talk your ear off. He graduated highschool with a modified plan. Got the Phys Ed award in the regular grade 12 program. He reads, writes, excels at video editing and PowerPoint creation, excellent at figuring out technical stuff to a degree. Highly social and works partime.
His birth showed me that acedemics aren’t as important as enjoying life for what it is.
This is wonderful and I’m glad he’s doing so well.
Abort whenever for whatever.
Part 1: Yeet
Part 2: Looks like I’m down with the sickness.
What you’re asking about is eugenics. People with downs syndrome can lead rewarding lives. Many people who work with those of us with downs say that they have the highest satisfaction with life of anyone out there. They do require a lot of costly and time consuming care in early life, but there is no reason a child born with downs can’t have a life they find fulfilling.
Given that, I would say if a mother’s only reason for aborting is the downs syndrome, that probably leans towards unethical. However if there are any other reasons a mother might choose to abort that fetus, it’s ethical. But terminating a pregnancy because the child has an “undesirable” trait is both eugenics and ableism which rarely result in ethical decision making.
Is it ethical to abort a child with any kind of disease/syndrome that requires more resources, time, and money than the parents can afford? If we had rephrased it as an adoption, it would be inarguable child abuse for a couple to adopt a special needs child they have no capability of raising.
I don’t disagree with you. Unwanted children do not have happy outcomes, especially those with disabilities. However if you are applying the logic of adoption to that of eugenics you should tread carefully. If society is allowed to impose restrictions on adoptions, why not biological parents? Perhaps pregnant women should have an income test? If a mother can’t afford to feed her child should she be allowed to retain custody or have the baby at all?
If a pregnant person decides they cannot afford it or aren’t up for the commitment that’s ethical. If a pregnant person decided to abort out of some pity for people with downs, well that’s eugenics and ableist, so probably unethical. Pragmatically though the result is the same.
Personally I interpreted the question as an individuals dilemma, I never intended for it to be a societal, or government sweeping legislation or expectation to abort any fetus with disabilities, just whether or not it was ethical for an individuals decision to abort. I dont think government or law should exist at all, so I wouldnt support any government restrictions on reproductive rights
Even under the umbrella of downs syndrome being the only reason, I think there’s variability. “I won’t be able to take care of this child” is quite different from “This child has an undesirable trait.”
