And keep in mind, foreigners are significantly more likely to be arrested for the same crime compared to non-foreigners, so in reality the ratio of who commits crimes is much higher in favour of non-foreigners.
That being said, the data is also skewed by the fact that non-foreigners are the majority. It doesn’t really matter though, since studies have shown time and time again that economic status is the single biggest factor in whether someone will commit a crime, and normalizing for that shows all races commit crimes at the same rates with statistically insignificant variation. Desperation fuels crime, not genetics.
I am pretty sure thats per capita, so its not about who has the majority since its a relative percantage to the number of people.
If the feddit.org mods knew how to watch lemmy.ml stuff they would be very upset.
Me when I spread misinformation:
But seriously, I genuinely don’t think you have ever actually looked at the modlog @ feddit.org or the general attitude towards police in the comments.
Literally, here’s one example of hundreds (that just so happened to be published by Katapult for even better comparison):
https://feddit.org/post/15019877
But clearly the mods were upset and removed all comments /s
How are they defining “foreigner” here, cause non-German citizens accounting for a 1/3 of all crime sounds really high and concerning.
To be honest, having a third of your population be immigrants sounds crazy too. Even in the US it’s only about 1/6th the population and half of those are naturalized citizens.
It’s about whether they’re ethnically German or not, even if you’re a German citizen but you’re a different kind of white European you’d count as an immigrant there.
Not only that, but we know that immigrants and marginalized people as a whole are overpoliced, so even police statistics are generally racist, which is part of the reason for this kind of statistic. The rest can be explained by marginalized people being generally poorer and lacking the same opportunities and access to jobs, education, housing, etc, so the likelihood of someone being homeless or extremely poor and desperate is much higher for those that are marginalized. So the better comparison isn’t with immigrants in the US, but rather black people in the US, who are also overpoliced and whose material conditions have been greatly shaped by systemic racism.
And lastly, most crime isn’t violent crime, and most crime committed by marginalized people disproportionately affect other marginalized people from their own community.
I have some doubts about your answer. Statistics that are accounting the origin of people are against the law. You can only report stats on nationality. So what you write is very surprising. This said the point about what is crime exactly and what this graph really considers as a crime is not clear and open to manipulation.
I looked into how Migrationshintergrund is tracked and apparently you’re right, officially in Germany it’s about whether you or one of your parents were born without a German citizenship (so someone who has a German parent and a non German parent counts, same as their non German parent). I got confused because the term is informally used to also include people who aren’t considered ethnically German, so my bad.
Checking a bit more on that . Tracking the ethnicity is forbidden by the GDPR (article 9) so it would be illegal to do in Germany. The source is here https://mediendienst-integration.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Expertisen/Mediendienst_Integration_Expertise_Kriminalitaet_und_Migration_in_deutschen_Medien_Thomas_Hestermann.pdf And it was foreigners. Not people with immigration background.
Oh wow, I didn’t realize how crazy race/ethnicity can get in Europe. I figured the term must be overloaded, but how do you even define/track ethnically German?
Your comments on over policing of marginalized people though is definitely a good call-out.
but we know that
Who is we? And how do all of you know what you claim?
marginalized people
‘Marginalized’ is a loaded term. What would make them NOT marginalized? Being the majority or having disproportionate representation?
as a whole are overpoliced
How did you come to this determination?
so even police statistics are generally racist
This relies on your previous statement which I doubt
marginalized people being generally poorer and lacking the same opportunities and access to jobs, education, housing, etc, so the likelihood of someone being homeless or extremely poor and desperate is much higher for those that are marginalized
Well now you’re changing your tune from your previous statement. Foreigners will necessarily be less established and struggle more than a native citizen. If these conditions mean that they are more likely to commit crime then doesn’t it follow that they would (and should) be policed more often?
most crime committed by marginalized people disproportionately affect other marginalized people from their own community
This is the same for any group.
Is it possible that they just commit a disproportionate amount of crime? Not is it true but is it possible? If it is possible how would you determine that?
It sounds like you’re trying to explain away the fact that subset of the population is responsible for an outsized portion of crime.
That’s you. I don’t debate people like you.
I stand by what I said. Look at Lemmy.ml. This entire instance hates the west and wants it to fall. How is what I said even controversial at this point?
You never did address the inherent contradiction in your argument but we can end it here if you want.
What Nazi Germany are you referring too, by showing 2023 data?
“What Nazi Germany are you referring too, by showing 2023 data?”
The one which says committing genocide is its reason to exist (staatsraison)
the current one. you know, the one fully behind a currently ongoing genocide.
The one explicitly dedicating 500% of inflated air time to crimes done by immigrants in the midst of a far right wave in Europe
The neo-one
You keep calling the federal republic of germany, ‘nazi germany’, it’s distracting, just say germany, we know they’re fascists
How about federal republic of Nazis’s?
Several years ago, I dreamed of escaping USA to the promised land of Germany. I don’t anymore.
The text at the bottom of the left statistics shows why this is a bad graph. Only 191 TV subjects from 270 reports, only 30% had origin mentioned. When looking for a suspect it makes sense to mention the origin of the suspect you are looking for.
This is what it should look like with the missing unspecified people readded. Still more foreign mentioned than specifically Deutsh mentioned, which can be explained away with photos or assumption that a white suspect is Deutsh and only specifying when it is ambiguous.
There’s a lot of defaultism at play here, and to be honest, it’s not the type of defaultism that should necessarily be criticised. If you’re in Germany, you expect most things to be done by German citizens, and therefore the tag of “foreigner” is treated as an exception to that, therefore it gets mentioned.
Making it illegal or difficult for news stations to say the origin of criminals would only make it worse. Then the narrative would be that every crime was committed by foreigners and that’s what the right wing would push. Perhaps it would be better to make it mandatory to mention the origin of criminals, that way there could be no obfuscation of facts, but then if there’s a high profile crime committed by a specific minority, innocent and unrelated people from that same country of origin could get targeted for no reason other than xenophobia.
There’s no easy solution to this, but claiming that it’s all racism instead of complex human interactions where there’s also bound to be some racism is not the way.
33,3% is a lot higher than I expected.
It probably includes Western immigrants as well (or quasi-Western like Ukrainians); the breakdown could go a little more in-depth
I recall Shaun skull having a video on this where he mentioned there’s some weird reporting on who is or isn’t a foreigner in some statistics, for example non-white citizens/non-ethnically German citizens being counted as foreigners instead of as Germans, to inflate foreigner crime stats
I completely agree that the representation is biased and pushed by xenophobia as well as rich interest groups that want to push xenophobia but calling the current German government nazis is dangerous as its relativates the danger of the actual rightextreme party trying to grab power conpared to the stupidly capitalistic party that is in power
Fascism is more overtly violent than liberalism for the local population, and none of us want them to take power, but we’re not gonna pretend liberals are being stupid, they know full well what they’re doing, they know full well they’re providing weapons for a genocide, they understand what they’re doing when they crackdown on peaceful protestors and slander them as antisemitic.
They understand crime statistics enough to know that immigrants aren’t at fault for most crime, and that most immigrant crime is against their own community, and that most of it isn’t even violent.
They know that poverty relief would drastically decrease crime, but that’d be slightly less profitable and would let people know they can actually get what they need. So they deflect, they demonize, they ridicule. And you all Europeans better organize before it’s too late, because I’m tired of random Muslims and other racialized people being exterminated.
Consecutive German governments were doing nothing to stop the neonazi party from emerging and gaining strenght for decades, while having enough tools to stop it. Not to mention current escalation against Palestinians into supporting the genocide and immediately repressing antigenocide movement.
German politics is still a nazi bar even since they stoppped being overtly nazi
The Katapult-Magazine is reffering to a slightly diferent and well known problem than “nazi-germany” spreading xenophobia.
Go ahead, say what you want to say
What exactly are they referring to?
Its a ongoing debate in modern german journalism.
For a couple of years now a lot of xenophob populists claim, that german media is part of some kind of leftist conspiracy. So when there is an article about a crime in local newspapers, its the geman journalistic standard to not tell any details. Just something like “A Runner in the local park got stabbed. The suspect (male, 27) is in custody. The victim (33) got severly wounded, but his life is not in danger.” Usualy you wont get any more information. No photographs, names or interviews. Thats the journalistic standard and to somepoint journalistic law. Sure, there is the right-wing boulevard News Paper “Bild” which breaks this rules really often, to make a profit from the craving for sensation. But still, its … kinda “forbidden” (its not really forbidden, its just really complicated to explain it. Believe me)
So now the xenophob populists agitate, that the newspaper is covering up the nationality. Because a crime like this is typicaly done by (insert minority here) and the media is part of the conspiracy.
This conspiracy-mania led to the point, that a lot of common people lost the trust in media for the last 10 years.
So to some point they started publishing the nationality of criminals. And the ongoing debate is meandering now about the topic: What is relevant for the (boulevadd) media in this reports? Is the nationality relevant? The cultural background? The job? Religion? Psychatric diseases?
In the end its kind of modern media discussing how to “fight” fascist groups on social media with good journalism.
And Katapult magazine shows, that now a lot of news papers publish the nationality when the criminals are not german. Thats usually newspapers are fearing the “covering up” agitation, when a criminal is not german. When hes german they forgot the relevance. For your explainations: it reads kinda weird when they report about a couple of crimes and they always tell you its an german here and and german there.
Katapult arent really telling something new there. Its all part of the discussion. And media is getting more sensitive to this matter.
Name one country where this isn’t true
Brazil?
What about Anti-social media like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit?
It’s quite difficult and/or very expensive to collect that data since these platforms deleted their open APIs. As far as most researchers are concerned this information is now basically unknowable.
That should be producing criminal-charges for being propaganda-operations-undermining-civilization while falsely masquerading as journalism.
Journalism HAS to be correct, XOR civilrights are obliterated, within 2 generations, once it’s become owned-propaganda.
& that 2-generations looks like it’s waaay too generous/soft, nowadays, with all the social-media amplification.
It’s probably 1 single generation, now.
< shruggeth >
Humankind’ll learn once it’s extinct, though, right?
it’ll accept responsibility then … right?
_ /\ _
Your writing style reminds me of Dr Bronner’s soap label rantings. You might want to see a psychiatrist.
А какой процент немцев в Германии?
The proportion of foreigners is about 14%, and they count according to citizenship. I guess the half of “Germans” on the right side are people with “migration background” that recorded as Germans.
Ну турков мигрантов шерстистых наверное уже немцами считают
