Phillips usually strip when using a pozidrive screw driver on them. Very common mistake because people think they are the sams, but easy to avoid once you know it.
Also, the fit has to be tight. If it’s loose, the screw driver is too small.
Posidrive is not that common and not the problem. Phillips heads strip because they’re designed to cam out and prevent snapping heads or overtorquing. JIS is same cross shape but doesnt cam out, which is good for avoiding stripping the heads but makes it easier to snap the head off of screws
Maybe in the US, but Pozidrive is very common here in Germany and other european countries in the form of “Spax” screws. They are the main screws we get for everything from wood working to wall mounts for pictures. They also don’t strip as easily as philips screws.
And trust me, I have seen plenty of philips screws beeing stripped ue to the use of pozi screw drivers while beeing perfectly okay when beeing removed with a philips screwdriver. Of course there are other reasons they strip as you mentioned, but here in Germany its a huge problem because Pozidrive is so common and people dont know the difference.
The reason for the stripping , that the shape of the tip is different.
Phillips heads are not designed to cam out. They were designed to not cam out. Common myth that keeps getting repeated, to explain their poor performance.
(This information is incorrect, see the reply below.)
Pozidriv drivers actually work very well on Philips screws, sometimes better than Philips drivers, due to the fact that the “vanes” are angled rather than curved, proving a larger contact area. Fit is definitely the larger factor, along with the quality of the screw metal.
I beg to differ. It’s the other way around. Using a pozidriv screwdriver on a philips screw almost guarantwes that you will strip the head when tightening.
Tip: In case of doubt, use a Phillips screwdriver. While they do not perfectly fit into the Pozidriv screws, one can at least insert the correct size. The use of Pozidriv screwdrivers in Phillips screws works only with screwdrivers that are too small and easily leads to damage of the screw or the tool.
You can find a pretty good explanation here or here
No, no they don’t. You mix up Philips and JIS, you WILL have a bad day.
Source: I’m an old toolmaker that has made some nice pocket change over the years drilling out stripped out JIS screws on motorcycle engines from owners that didn’t know the difference. A decent amount from repeat customers too…
Oh, I absolutely believe that a Philips driver would ruin just about any other type of screw, but I don’t think that’s what the video talks about—they suggest using JIS drivers with Philips screws. Have you also seen problems with that combination?
When I was a toolmaker, a large part of my day was often spent removing stripped fasteners that others had messed up. And yes, I have seen that done, JIS used in place of Philips. They do equal damage, equally as well, and equally as easily.
The largest problem with ANY fastener system is that users are too stupid, lazy, and cheap to:
Buy quality fasteners. Cheap, Cheerful Chinese fasteners can often come pre-damaged and are cheese soft, saving so much time. Properly made, more expensive fasteners will seldom cause you a problem. (And yes, the Chinese do make quality items. YOU just won’t pay for them)
Buy quality tools and be sure they fit your fasteners correctly. The dollar store ain’t selling quality anything, anywhere, in that store.
Inspect your tools for wear and damage. They are consumables. Toss them when damaged or worn out.
Use the right tool for the job. If you don’t have the right tool, go buy it. Don’t try and fudge it.
Maybe. The opposite isn’t really true in my experience. Pozi drivers work well enough on JIS heads but Philips drivers slip way too easily. The bad thing is that JIS looks like Phillips heads which probably is part of the reason for Phillips rep of slipping out.
Philips is designed to allow the screwdriver to slip out so you don’t over-torque the screw. If you’re stripping them, you’re probably using too much torque. But, it might not be your fault, because a lot of people use Philips screws when they shouldn’t, and use too much torque when screwing them in.
As for slotted, those just suck. I guess one benefit is that you can use an over-sized head on small screws. But, slotted is really the wrong choice almost every time.
Philips is designed to allow the screwdriver to slip out
That’s a myth. I’ve read the entire patent and there is no mention of it, and later patents are just post-hoc justifications for an objectively faulty, inferior design.
My charitable hypothesis is that the design uses shallower angles that are easier to cam out because sharp angles would result in stress fractures during the cold forming of the screw heads. My realistic hypothesis is that dies with shallow angles are cheaper to produce and more durable. But the point is moot: the Phillips didn’t become the de facto standard because of any practical advantage (real or perceived), but because Robertson wasn’t willing to sell exclusive rights to Ford.
I’m usually not one to criticise a person’s life choices, but if you think Phillips is better than the popular alternatives, I immediately think less of you as a person.
Ok, it’s more accurate to say that the fact that the screw will cam out is something that was key to its adoption, even if it wasn’t designed to happen.
Quoting “One Good Turn - A natural history of the screwdriver and the screw” by Witold Rybczynski:
Paradoxically, this very quality is what attracted automobile manufacturers to the Phillips screw. The point of an automated driver turning the screw with increasing force popped out of the recess when the screw was fully set, preventing overscrewing. Thus, a certain degree of cam-out was incorporated into the design from the beginning. However, what worked on the assembly line has bedevilled handymen ever since.
I see, you decided to pick 2 pieces of shit.
Phillips proceeds to strip when I look at it badly.
Slotted keeps kicking out the screwdriver.
Robertson is the top. It holds onto the screwdriver even without magnet, and good luck stripping a square.
Phillips usually strip when using a pozidrive screw driver on them. Very common mistake because people think they are the sams, but easy to avoid once you know it.
Also, the fit has to be tight. If it’s loose, the screw driver is too small.
Posidrive is not that common and not the problem. Phillips heads strip because they’re designed to cam out and prevent snapping heads or overtorquing. JIS is same cross shape but doesnt cam out, which is good for avoiding stripping the heads but makes it easier to snap the head off of screws
Maybe in the US, but Pozidrive is very common here in Germany and other european countries in the form of “Spax” screws. They are the main screws we get for everything from wood working to wall mounts for pictures. They also don’t strip as easily as philips screws.
And trust me, I have seen plenty of philips screws beeing stripped ue to the use of pozi screw drivers while beeing perfectly okay when beeing removed with a philips screwdriver. Of course there are other reasons they strip as you mentioned, but here in Germany its a huge problem because Pozidrive is so common and people dont know the difference.
The reason for the stripping , that the shape of the tip is different.
Source: pbswisstools.com
Phillips heads are not designed to cam out. They were designed to not cam out. Common myth that keeps getting repeated, to explain their poor performance.
(This information is incorrect, see the reply below.)
Pozidriv drivers actually work very well on Philips screws, sometimes better than Philips drivers, due to the fact that the “vanes” are angled rather than curved, proving a larger contact area. Fit is definitely the larger factor, along with the quality of the screw metal.They’re both junk next to Robertson though.
I beg to differ. It’s the other way around. Using a pozidriv screwdriver on a philips screw almost guarantwes that you will strip the head when tightening.
You can find a pretty good explanation here or here
More sources: Mechanics on Stackoverflow
Whoops, you’re right, I had my memory of the geometries mixed up.
There is this interesting video that suggests that JIS drivers (a Japanese standard) work pretty well for all cruciform heads.
No, no they don’t. You mix up Philips and JIS, you WILL have a bad day.
Source: I’m an old toolmaker that has made some nice pocket change over the years drilling out stripped out JIS screws on motorcycle engines from owners that didn’t know the difference. A decent amount from repeat customers too…
Oh, I absolutely believe that a Philips driver would ruin just about any other type of screw, but I don’t think that’s what the video talks about—they suggest using JIS drivers with Philips screws. Have you also seen problems with that combination?
When I was a toolmaker, a large part of my day was often spent removing stripped fasteners that others had messed up. And yes, I have seen that done, JIS used in place of Philips. They do equal damage, equally as well, and equally as easily.
The largest problem with ANY fastener system is that users are too stupid, lazy, and cheap to:
Maybe. The opposite isn’t really true in my experience. Pozi drivers work well enough on JIS heads but Philips drivers slip way too easily. The bad thing is that JIS looks like Phillips heads which probably is part of the reason for Phillips rep of slipping out.
Philips is designed to allow the screwdriver to slip out so you don’t over-torque the screw. If you’re stripping them, you’re probably using too much torque. But, it might not be your fault, because a lot of people use Philips screws when they shouldn’t, and use too much torque when screwing them in.
As for slotted, those just suck. I guess one benefit is that you can use an over-sized head on small screws. But, slotted is really the wrong choice almost every time.
That’s a myth. I’ve read the entire patent and there is no mention of it, and later patents are just post-hoc justifications for an objectively faulty, inferior design.
My charitable hypothesis is that the design uses shallower angles that are easier to cam out because sharp angles would result in stress fractures during the cold forming of the screw heads. My realistic hypothesis is that dies with shallow angles are cheaper to produce and more durable. But the point is moot: the Phillips didn’t become the de facto standard because of any practical advantage (real or perceived), but because Robertson wasn’t willing to sell exclusive rights to Ford.
I’m usually not one to criticise a person’s life choices, but if you think Phillips is better than the popular alternatives, I immediately think less of you as a person.
People are brainwashed by phillips corporate propaganda to believe phillips is a good screw head.
Ok, it’s more accurate to say that the fact that the screw will cam out is something that was key to its adoption, even if it wasn’t designed to happen.
Quoting “One Good Turn - A natural history of the screwdriver and the screw” by Witold Rybczynski:
https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/were-phillips-screwdrivers-designed-to-cam-out/57870/9