Big difference between “I joined the DSA because it’s the only thing in my area that could even charitably be called left” and “I joined the DSA because I’m left but I’m not one of those authoritarian tankies,” and while I can’t speak for anyone else here, I get the impression it’s the latter type of person they’re aiming at.

[Unironic, not doing a bit]: Sometimes you have to exist with the contradictions (i.e. tensions, opposing forces, etc.). There are contradictions within the membership of even ML parties that have to be handled carefully. If DSA is the only group that exists around you then it is better to join (and perhaps be a good radical influence on others ;) ) than to do nothing. There are Marxist caucuses too in the DSA. And maybe as more Marxist parties emerge in your area you can get plugged into them, and you aren’t starting from zero when you do.

Engaging in the world and doing actual practice will do good for further radicalizing yourself and others. Be sure to bring theory back to what you’re doing too, to contextualize it and think through stategy, but engaging in the world is what will drive those contradictions within DSA members to a point where they have to change and adapt to the realities of the world, or they will be left in the marsh.

1.) It’s an error to throw out all groups or people because they aren’t perfect Marxsists or whatev. You can’t avoid contradictions within our class, especially in the imperial core. Some people have shit opinions but they also will have some good ones too. People arent completelt one or the other. These tensions have to be worked through. So we all have to engage with people who may have lib takes. But not all contradictions need be antagonistic. It’s an error to make enemies of all people with bad takes. And not all antagonistic contradictions may stay antagonistic, but also vice versa so watch out!

2.) It is also an error to ignore contradictions and to pretend they don’t have an impact. Contradictions and tensions continue to evolve and hence change how the group behaves and responds to politics. There may be a point where these contradictions within the DSA make them completely unworkable. But I am not claiming that is the case with DSA at the moment.

**So I think it’s better to join than to do nothing. ** Engagement, even imperfect, leads to change and will change you and your org. You can’t ignore contradictions and you also can’t wish them away, just keep in mind that those tensions/imperfections/contradictions will continue to grow, change, and impact how the org evolves. Your own inner contradictions will also change you, too.

Working within that liminal space is a skill, but all of life is liminal anyway so it’s good to get used to maneuvering it. Maybe make some principals for yourself when things get weird: Don’t do wrecker shit to other good orgs, don’t support chauvinistic or imperialist policies, etc, etc…

I guarantee you half the posters on this site have never been a part of an org, probably never will be, and likely gets anxiety over even imagining doing so; so rest assured you being in the DSA is not a negative at all lol.

[/unjerk]

I’m also a DSA guy

Just focus on the labor and mutual aid aspects, join Communist Caucus or Springs or Revolution or LSC and read a lot

I agree with what everyone else said about joining if it’s the only option but if you aren’t prepared to be a part of DSA and criticize their flaws and push them to improve, all DSA will do is make you more like their worst elements instead of you being a part of improving the organization

as someone in a different org with a very different structure and theory of change & as someone who is very critical of the DSA, if it’s the only thing near you you should definitely stay active, it’s 1000% better than doing nothing or just posting (but then, i repeat myself (ha ha)). idt it’s ever been polled or anything but i’m fairly confident the good majority of people on hexbear haven’t ever organized, at least not seriously. hostility on the internet is often a libidinal outlet for people’s feelings of powerlessness - i hope my own participation in the electoralism dust-ups didn’t cross into that realm, and if they did i apologize.

if this site is getting to you too badly then yeah just step away for a bit and logout. idk the internet sucks, it’s inherently alienated and antisocial terrain and hexbear is only somewhat better than the rest and it has its major problems. like for example almost posted a cringe & relitigating metapost but i’m just gonna leave it at that, take a break when you need to and try not to take a fundamentally flawed format for community too seriously.

[Bitless] Don’t take it seriously, at least from the responses I’ve seen at least a few people taking the piss have to be a member of DSA with how some of this mimics the forum-posting. Also, DSA varies pretty heavy chapter by chapter and anything is better than nothing. Besides, any US org is going to have piss-takes here, DSA just gets the most shit since it has a vocal socdem component.

Also you’re American, there is a decent third-worldist contingent that is going to treat you as a lib by default regardless of org affiliations so no use stressing about it.

reading this constant gleeful hatred on this site just makes me tired and feel like shit.

Well, ain’t that truth about any online forum site like this, especially under the background of bad news

I am aware that they are flawed, I do not agree with everything they say and do, but they do good things in my community and they are the only people I know IRL saying the word “socialist” and not meaning it as a slur, what the fuck do you want me to do? Can I not just accept their good parts and object to the bad? Am I welcome on this site?

Yes - and you could also block this post because tbh, it gets exhausting hearing shit like this all the time.