When we say that we are Marxist-Leninists, we mean that we have studied and understood the classical principles of scientific socialism and that we have adapted these principles to our own situation for ourselves.
He criticizes some aspects of Marxism and especially some ML movements, but he nonetheless identifies the BPP as belonging to the ML lineage.
The Black Panther Party called itself a Marxist-guided organization. It made the study of Marxism-Leninism compulsory among the leading cadre. This step was unprecedented in the history of the Black Liberation struggle. The Panthers did not lift the Black Liberation movement to an international level.
The Communist Party of the U.S.A. had already done that. That is why it was feared and all progressive steps were charged to it. Black and White Communists had stood in international bodies to proclaim that inseparable relation of the struggle of Blacks in the U.S.A. to the world-wide freedom struggle. The Black Liberation struggle no less needs the guidance of a scienct: than does every other liberation struggle. Social revolution is a science, as the Communists have said many times, a science to be creatively used has to be mastered and the science guiding revolution must of historical necessity be a universal science. That science is Marxism-Leninism.
He says some strange things about Lenin and the BPP not being historical materialists but being dialectical materialists that I don’t really understand, but generally we can say that he explicitly aligns the BPP with his views on ML theory.
I think that someone misinformed you on the BPP for the sake of some sort of anti-Lenin revisionism. They were very big fans of Mao, but “Maoism” as a thing opposed to “Leninism” didn’t really exist yet and Mao himself clearly didn’t like such a characterization.
This doesn’t disprove what I was saying. Which is in reference to the post where the person on camera said the BPP was Marxist Leninist. (In reference to a fight between MLs and Maoists.)
Mao was who they aligned with the most, even if there weren’t “Maoists” at this time. I wasn’t fooled by anyone I just thought it was odd they brought up them being MLs in this context.
The term “Maoist” doesn’t just mean “fan of Mao” though. It’s kind of a difficult label to discuss because many groups use it in very different ways, most infamously the “Maoists” of the Shining Path, otherwise referred to as Gonzalites. I really think the most accurate thing to call them, based on the timelines involved and explicit statements like what we saw above, was that they were primarily their own adaptation/interpretation of Marxism-Leninism who were big fans of the guy they saw as the greatest global pioneer of nonwhite Marxism-Leninism, Chairman Mao (and the Cleaver text especially supports the characterization, imo). We can’t especially tie them to the Red Guards (despite common influence) or Gonzalites (thank God) or other “Maoist” movements.
I think the “Maoist” label is inaccurate, and again would repeat that Mao himself rejected such a term. It’s an ideological muddying akin to saying the BPP was Juche because they also spoke very highly of Kim Il-Sung as a foundational figure in the development of nonwhite socialism (see Cleaver). I think the resident Dune fan’s correction was fair enough and your “correction” of the OOP was not justified.
And they were more Pan-Africanist and Black Nationalist/Muslim than Maoist. People vastly overrate how the BPP fit into a Marxist mold while simultaneously underrating how they fit well into a Pan-Africanist and Black Nationalist/Muslim mold. Just because Dr. Huey P. Newton and Eldridge Cleaver characterized the org as ML didn’t mean the rank and file necessarily felt the same way. Remember, the org only existed because Malcolm X got assassinated and the OAAU and Muslim Mosque, Inc. fell apart because he died. A lot of initial members were basically radical Black Muslims who joined the BPP because they no longer thought the NOI was good because Malcolm X had a very public fallout with the org. They joined the BPP because it was the next best thing after the OAAU/Muslim Mosque, Inc collapsed. They read Marx and Mao, but they didn’t really discard their Muslim beliefs that they brought over with them.
I strongly encourage you to hunt down videos and writings by BPP vets and not just people everyone knows about like Newton or Cleaver. Here’s a tribute video of Sekou Odinga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjWCJDTHioQ Notice how you see a lot of vets who are Muslim. There’s the Jericho Movement that started as a political movement to free BPP/BLA member Jalil Muntaqim, a Black Muslim who wrote a book more or less advocating for the establishment of New Afrika. There’s Dhoruba Bin Wahad speaking at a mosque as a Muslim. And he’s not a rando nobody either. He was founding member of the NY branch of the BPP, part of the Panther 21, and part of the BLA. Even Assata Shakur’s autobiography had a section where she felt more inspired by Ho and Castro than by Marx and Lenin.
The Youtube channel Activist News Network sadly privated a lot of videos where the dude interviewed BBP/BLA vets. So many of their interviews have them say, “so anyways, Malcolm X radicalized me and led me to take the shahada and his assassination led me to join an org.”
Maybe that’s why the US hated the BPP so much. A lot of them were essentially Islamocommunists, everything that the WestTM fears and loathes all in one package.
Black Panther Party were more Maoist than MLs
Not really, Maoism as a distinct ideology wasn’t formed until much later. They were definitely big Mao supporters, though.
I understand, that’s why I said were more. They also never claimed the ML title either.
Eldridge Cleaver – “On the Ideology of the Black Panther Party” (1969)
He criticizes some aspects of Marxism and especially some ML movements, but he nonetheless identifies the BPP as belonging to the ML lineage.
Huey P. Newton – “To Die for the People” (1972)
He says some strange things about Lenin and the BPP not being historical materialists but being dialectical materialists that I don’t really understand, but generally we can say that he explicitly aligns the BPP with his views on ML theory.
I think that someone misinformed you on the BPP for the sake of some sort of anti-Lenin revisionism. They were very big fans of Mao, but “Maoism” as a thing opposed to “Leninism” didn’t really exist yet and Mao himself clearly didn’t like such a characterization.
This doesn’t disprove what I was saying. Which is in reference to the post where the person on camera said the BPP was Marxist Leninist. (In reference to a fight between MLs and Maoists.)
Mao was who they aligned with the most, even if there weren’t “Maoists” at this time. I wasn’t fooled by anyone I just thought it was odd they brought up them being MLs in this context.
The term “Maoist” doesn’t just mean “fan of Mao” though. It’s kind of a difficult label to discuss because many groups use it in very different ways, most infamously the “Maoists” of the Shining Path, otherwise referred to as Gonzalites. I really think the most accurate thing to call them, based on the timelines involved and explicit statements like what we saw above, was that they were primarily their own adaptation/interpretation of Marxism-Leninism who were big fans of the guy they saw as the greatest global pioneer of nonwhite Marxism-Leninism, Chairman Mao (and the Cleaver text especially supports the characterization, imo). We can’t especially tie them to the Red Guards (despite common influence) or Gonzalites (thank God) or other “Maoist” movements.
I think the “Maoist” label is inaccurate, and again would repeat that Mao himself rejected such a term. It’s an ideological muddying akin to saying the BPP was Juche because they also spoke very highly of Kim Il-Sung as a foundational figure in the development of nonwhite socialism (see Cleaver). I think the resident Dune fan’s correction was fair enough and your “correction” of the OOP was not justified.
And they were more Pan-Africanist and Black Nationalist/Muslim than Maoist. People vastly overrate how the BPP fit into a Marxist mold while simultaneously underrating how they fit well into a Pan-Africanist and Black Nationalist/Muslim mold. Just because Dr. Huey P. Newton and Eldridge Cleaver characterized the org as ML didn’t mean the rank and file necessarily felt the same way. Remember, the org only existed because Malcolm X got assassinated and the OAAU and Muslim Mosque, Inc. fell apart because he died. A lot of initial members were basically radical Black Muslims who joined the BPP because they no longer thought the NOI was good because Malcolm X had a very public fallout with the org. They joined the BPP because it was the next best thing after the OAAU/Muslim Mosque, Inc collapsed. They read Marx and Mao, but they didn’t really discard their Muslim beliefs that they brought over with them.
I strongly encourage you to hunt down videos and writings by BPP vets and not just people everyone knows about like Newton or Cleaver. Here’s a tribute video of Sekou Odinga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjWCJDTHioQ Notice how you see a lot of vets who are Muslim. There’s the Jericho Movement that started as a political movement to free BPP/BLA member Jalil Muntaqim, a Black Muslim who wrote a book more or less advocating for the establishment of New Afrika. There’s Dhoruba Bin Wahad speaking at a mosque as a Muslim. And he’s not a rando nobody either. He was founding member of the NY branch of the BPP, part of the Panther 21, and part of the BLA. Even Assata Shakur’s autobiography had a section where she felt more inspired by Ho and Castro than by Marx and Lenin.
This is all very true. Also, the BPP was more influenced by Du Bois and Garvey than Marx in terms of theory.
The Youtube channel Activist News Network sadly privated a lot of videos where the dude interviewed BBP/BLA vets. So many of their interviews have them say, “so anyways, Malcolm X radicalized me and led me to take the shahada and his assassination led me to join an org.”
Maybe that’s why the US hated the BPP so much. A lot of them were essentially Islamocommunists, everything that the WestTM fears and loathes all in one package.
Ive spoken with exactly 1 former member and yeah, leadership and the international committee were pretty far ahead of the rank and file