Hey all. I’d like to open an official discussion regarding the upturning of the prior Hexbear party line on an :israel-cool: emote proper with the unambiguous Zionist flag.

I want to preface this by saying this is not in a ‘ceding the issue’ way. Over the past year I’ve been trying to engage in self-crit w/rt the chauvinism I’ve internalized growing up in a Liberal Zionist household, and my personal viewpoint on it did a 180 some months back, so I want to reopen this discussion proper in my personal capacities as Self-Appointed Emote Czar.

The reason it’s taken long enough beyond that is prior to July, I was essentially half-engaged with the site in order to finish out my degree. After that, it’s been mostly inertia of confirming with the admins and other /c/Judaism mods, as well as having to be rigorous about my job search personally giving me little free time to coordinate this.

I do not want to center myself in this conversation more than I inadvertently already have, so I will leave my own opinion on the issue as a comment rather than explaining further here.

The consensus we’ve roughly come to is to open up the discussion in an official manner for a day or so. After that, I’ll weigh the discussion in an entirely vibes-based manner (sorry Dean Norris enjoyers) and we’ll alter Hexbear party line on it accordingly.

lea-bounce

  • Jabril [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    6 days ago

    yeah there is definitely a point where those things become problems too but on the other hand this thread alone has made me understand how a person on hexbear could get jokerfied from the left marx-joker

    • trinicorn [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      6 days ago

      There’s an element of that in every struggle session, I think. It’s exhausting. Because the form of the struggle session doesn’t really work in frictionless online plane where nobody is accountable to anybody and everyone just gets rewarded for riling each other up and getting unhingedly angry.

      Almost no struggle session on this site has ever been productive, even those that ended in the “right” side “winning”.[1]. IRL you can have a baseline level of trust in your comrades, and that you are all committed to mostly the same basic principles, and then build constructively from that basis. But online people just go straight to screaming at each other pretty fast, most people have no lasting identity or accountability, and we’ve decided that berating eachother at the slightest provocation is fine because to do otherwise is “tone policing”. And yeah, tone-policing can be an issue, but sheer animosity does undermine the effectiveness of the struggle session. It just makes everyone involved defensive and brings out the worst in them. Maybe not all the same principles from IRL can be used online, but certainly we can do better than this. People would do well to read Constructive Criticism: A Handbook [2] and not just operate based on vibes and the norms of the rest of the internet.

      [1]:

      This isn’t to say our community hasn’t grown in positive ways. But during struggle sessions particularly, very few people are converted, and many people, potential comrades, are shed from the community due to hostility (some deservedly, but many not). The bulk of the convincing and understanding happens in the more comradely discussions before and after a struggle sesh. This isn’t to say we should tolerate the whinging of people who do not share our fundamental convictions or refuse to be comradely themselves, but I see convincing people of the correctness of our ideas as an investment of effort and love into fellow comrades, and a recognition of their potential, and hostility and berating as fundamentally saying they are not worth our effort. Its no one person’s responsibility to baby step people here into more correct views, but for those with the patience to do so, it is usually a worthwhile endeavor, and uncomradely hostility makes it much harder to do.

      [2]:

      One relevant section:

      Two common mistakes are made in seeking the correct relationship between unity and struggle. One mistake is to emphasize unity at all costs. People who fall into this position fail to make a correct distinction between allies and enemies, or between working-class and ruling-class ideology. As a result, they seek to smooth over differences. They think that any struggle is bad, instead of seeing the difference between principled struggle, which is necessary to advance the movement, and dogmatic factionalism. This position often springs from the fear that “someone might feel bad” if a struggle goes on, or from an opportunist desire to maintain a vague, unprincipled alliance. In either case, the fear of struggle usually boils down to the fear that things will be messy for me if the struggle gets hot. This kind of liberalism arises from narrow self-interest, from thinking about what is good for oneself or a small group, and not about what is good for the whole movement.

      The other mistake is to emphasize struggle at all costs. Some people struggle for unity based on absolute unanimity, because they see anything less as a form of unprincipled compromise. These dogmatists generally define unity as “the identical interpretation of the revolutionary classics.” They often spend most of their time dueling with quotations, and seldom venture into the messy real world. They fail to see that theory is meant to illuminate the problems which spring up in the course of changing the world, and that intellectual work can only be correct and valuable when it is accompanied by the practice necessary for a deep understanding of concrete conditions. Rather than pursuing the dialectical progression of unity-struggle-transformation, they proceed from unity to splinter group to fizzle. Their criticism and self-criticism comes out like “trash and self-trash,” because they confuse care with softness and patience with liberalism. They forget Mao’s words that “to treat comrades like enemies is to go over to the side of the enemy.”

      Mao calls the process of building unity among comrades “carrying out the work of one struggle and two helps.” Unless criticism is practiced with the sincere desire to reach unity, he says, “It is no good. It is nothing more than knocking each other down. Which is better, one more or one less (working together for the revolution)? It is better to have more people and mobilize every conceivable factor.”


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