ObjectivityIncarnate

“News” that’s 2 months old, lol

study people’s past opinions

Whether someone has previously attempted suicide is not an opinion. Holy shit, lol.

What this means is that you’re misremembering some study, are quoting a right wing hit piece, or are just pulling shit out of your ass.

Whatever fantasy lets you feel like you’re the superior being, I guess. But actual good faith discussion, you clearly have no interest in, so I’ll leave you to your fuming.

Hope you improve.

By the way, re

How in the world are you going to have a study with any kind of statistical reliability, when you are polling trans people WHO ARE IN THE FUCKING CLOSET??!!

You do understand what those words mean, do you not? You’re talking about people who are not out. You’re talking about people who are not publicly out as trans. So obviously you can’t poll these people when trying to survey the trans population.

Did it ever occur to you that trans people who are now out can share their experiences from before they were out? This is like saying you can’t learn anything about childhood experiences by talking to adults.

“Just think about for a second. Actually THINK about it man!”

So you’re referring to the bit that I explicitly stated right at the top, that I didn’t readily have a source link for?

You’re doubling down on looking foolish by angrily calling me deceptive while showing proof that I wasn’t.

Also, what you linked doesn’t contradict the particular data point I emphasized in what I read, as it doesn’t compare suicidality between closeted and out trans people; it only compares the second and third groups I mentioned in my comment.

When it comes to the topics where there is overlap, my remembered source agrees with what you linked: that for trans people who are out, support is, obviously, going to reduce suicidality more than than lack of support.

The interesting/unexpected data point was that the rate was lower among trans people who never come out, than for either subset of trans people who have come out.

Calling me transphobic for mentioning that I read something that contradicts a commonly-held assumption, is toxic and anti-intellectual. If you want to disregard it because I can’t back it up, that’s perfectly understandable (hence my prefaced disclaimer, in the first place!), but there’s no call for the hostility, at all. Relax.

As for me, I know what I read, and I’m confident I’m remembering it properly too because, guess what, it surprised me too, like I said! That’s what made it stick with me for years, despite not having immediately meticulously recorded where I read it.

EDIT: You may also note that I drew literally ZERO conclusions based on said data point, only remarking on the apparent complexity it introduces to the topic.

Bullying is not less widespread than it was before 2008. Anecdotally, I have two kids in high school and bullying is rife, it seems the environment in school is exactly as it was 30 years ago. This is the general consensus between myself, other parents and education/healthcare professionals that I’ve spoken to.

Well, here is some data I found that contradicts that, and supports my assertion, after doing a quick search:

In 2021–22, about 19 percent of students ages 12–18 reported being bullied during school, which was lower than the percentage who reported this in 2010–11 (28 percent).

The years don’t line up absolutely perfectly, but 28% to 19% in a post-2008 ~10 year period is a 32% drop, if I did my math correctly.

You may want to try pulling your glasses out of your ass and actually reading what I wrote.

I cited the source I used for the first part (the two quoted bits), and prefaced the thing I didn’t have a source for (forgive me for not meticulously recording the source of every single interesting thing I read forevermore) by saying straight-up that I didn’t, before even saying what it said.

Misgendering, deadnaming, and broadly “it’s just bullying get over it” type speech leads to suicides particularly by younger people.

How do you reconcile this assertion with the fact that bullying was inarguably more widespread before 2008 than it has been since then, and yet:

Researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) found that rates of preteen suicide (ages 8-12) have been increasing by approximately 8% annually since 2008.

Also, trans men are generally much more likely to convincingly ‘pass’ than trans women (and trans people who ‘pass’ are bullied less, by simple virtue of the fact that fewer people are able to even identify them as trans), and yet:

Female preteens had a disproportionate increase in suicide rate compared to male preteens.

Something isn’t adding up here, no?

Unfortunately I can’t find it again, because it was such an interesting and surprising bit of data, but I read a study some years ago that split trans people up into three categories, and compared the rate of suicide among them:

1. in the closet
2. out, and reported being supported overall by their community/peers after coming out
3. out, and reported being unsupported overall by their community/peers after coming out

If you had to guess which of the three categories had the lowest suicide rate, I bet it’d be #2, right? So did I, but actually, the group with the least suicidality was #1! The implication that never coming out at all makes a trans person less likely to take their life than coming out to people who accept and support them was stunning, but there it was, in black and white. So what does that mean, exactly?

I don’t know, but this is definitely a more complex issue than it appears on the surface, to most people.

It’s not news to me, my choice of height for the analogy versus something like eye color, which also would have worked, was deliberate.

I’m extremely wary of anyone who insults or compliments others or even themself, based on any immutable characteristic.

Anyone else having Jack Thompson flashbacks, except worse because it’s actually gaining some traction?

if you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice and also complain you can’t find a nice women to settle down

That’s an absurd stereotype that obviously doesn’t apply to the vast majority of lonely men, though.

Maybe the skill issue is in not realizing that.

P.S. Also, there are plenty of married couples who are both MAGA, and I myself had no shortage of single MAGA women popping up on dating apps when I was single who made it crystal clear they weren’t interested in anyone who wasn’t also MAGA, also anti-vax, etc.

P.P.S. ‘Your body my choice’ was a meme for like three weeks.

Stereotyping and generalizing is uncomplicated by nature, yes. That’s the whole point, after all—to prejudge so that you can ‘spare’ your mind the effort of considering individual situations and circumstances.

Especially frustrating when they try to justify it because it’s aimed at a ‘bad guy’. Doesn’t change the fact that penis size is as immutable as height, and is therefore completely idiotic to use as basis for insult.

Not to mention the complete lack of empathy and consideration for all of the decent guys who have penises that are ‘small’ too, who are catching strays for no good reason every time that’s used as an insult.

The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed, people being unable to find sexual companionship because people of their desired sex don’t want to be around them due to their personal choices is something that can be made fun of.

But conflating those two categories of men as if all lonely men are the latter, does no good to anyone, and only helps fuel misandric stereotypes.

Dude, youre bringing some “exactly the same kind of person as OOP” energy throughout this thread…

the Trump voters who modeled their personalities on empty victory declaration and hurting brown people

???

Are you assuming lonely men all fit the above description? If so, that’s idiotic.

If not, then I don’t know what the fuck you’re on about, lol.

I don’t even say one side has to be automatically “sided with” (because that’s how you get stuff like the Brian Banks situation), but, at the very least, don’t dismiss either side out of hand as if it literally cannot have been true, you know?

I’m bringing empathy for a demographic that’s generally starved of it, and frustration toward those who have none for it, is all.

my anecdote is valid and yours isn’t

ok

And then, on the other hand, are women who don’t like dating men who don’t make more money than they do: https://nypost.com/2019/09/25/women-are-struggling-to-find-men-who-make-as-much-money-as-they-do/

Wait until you find out about the order of magnitude of greater doubt there is when a man is attacked by a woman.

Signed, a male who was molested by a female as a child, then told it’s literally “impossible” for rape to happen in that direction when he futilely sought support.