- cross-posted to:
- collapse@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- collapse@slrpnk.net
You must log in or # to comment.
Since supersquirrel chose the same misleading title for this thread, I’ll just post my comment again:
The AfD can suck a big one, but they only won the federal state election in Saxonia-Anhalt, with a population of 1.7 million against Germany’s 80+ million. It’s still very worrisome to me, and they won the state in a landslide, but “winning in Germany” hasn’t happened yet, thankfully.
I don’t know why this irks me so much, but it does, and I have nothing to do today so I correct it.
My guess is the AFD will try to install similar systems as orban did in Hungary. Once AFD functionaries can get their hands on might and government money they will try to tuck as much as possible into their pockets. They talk about patriotism but only act in their own self-interest. They dont even have real plans or visions on how to improve their voters live and are not able to give real substantial answers to journalists questions. But this doesn’t matter to a lot of voters because they are either too frustrated by their own lives or the corrupt shit other political parties did or just brain rotted from tik tok. The AFD talking about patriotism makes them feel good and so they can neglect the fact that the AFD will make their live even worse and they can also neglect that the AFD will do ten times the corrupt shit the “mainstream” parties did. It’s like a drug making you feel good even while facing doom.
The main motivation of MAGA voters is not that their lives should improve, it’s that others should be punished and there should be groups of people who way are worse off than they are.
That’s probably the same for AfD voters.
What can we do about this?
Perhaps we could start addressing the issues that the AfD is using as campaign talking points and that the others choose to ignore.
Meeting the AFD at their terms (“inhaltlich stellen”) is exactly what the CDU tried, and look where that got them.
Answering facism with “well okay maybe we do have too many outsiders and queer people” doesn’t solve facism, it simply creates more. And at the end of the day people still vote for the OG facists, so you lose across the board.
What we really need is to stop offering populists and facists the stage. We have to place the issues that are actually important instead of this fucking fear mongering. People don’t vote AFD for their legitimate policies! People vote facists if they’re uneducated, poor, and desperate. We need to offer education and realistic opportunities of economical advancement and happiness. Want to guess which party doesn’t offer that at all and instead will make all three significantly worse for working people? THE FUCKING AFD.
The problem is one step higher, the solution being offered is the shitty take.
People hate capitalism, they struggle with real in person connections, hate their jobs, are underpaid, and struggle with basic cost of living expenses. AfD blames immigrants. The solution isn’t to ALSO blame immigrants, the solution is to solve the underlying problems.
It’s a very difficult list of societal problems that specific people are claiming can be solved with one neat final solution, when in reality it just causes more problems and centralized power.
difficult list of societal problems that specific people are claiming can be solved with one neat final solution
Lol. I saw what you did there
I’m not proud.
The solution isn’t to ALSO blame immigrants, the solution is to solve the underlying problems.
Exactly my point.
People in (former) East Germany believe that they are forgotten by all the traditional political parties. And that nobody attempts to take care of them. So most of them see it as a protest vote.
As an aside, about two thousand billion euros have been invested in the former Eastern Germany by the country and EU since the reunification.
Source for the “two thousand billion”?
Local news yesterday night.
That’s no source. Which outlet?
Source seems to be Joachim Ragnith (economist, vice leader of ifo Dresden)
Pinpointing a number is difficult for various reasons though.
I think it was arte in “le dessous des cartes”. Not completely sure though.
I can confirm: The number is mentioned at about 2:00 in the German version.
https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/126925-113-A/mit-offenen-karten-im-fokus/
We’ve tried nothing and we’re out of ideas!
Precisely
Still haven’t seen anything about the role of the disinfo campaign here, which was afaik very sizeable, and extra info graphs about who voted what . Anyone more info?
found this DW source and NTV source.
" According to Platform Wahlen, there have been several acts of influence that can be attributed to Russian actors. Russian propaganda networks such as Operation Overload (“Matryoshka”) and “Storm-1516” attempted to discredit the candidates of the CDU, SPD, FDP, Left Party and Greens from Saxony-Anhalt."
I just watched the Channel 5 video, and most of them are fueled with disinformation.
Many of then don’t even live on big cities with immigrants, but they say that can’t go outside with so many crimes
“Inside The Rise of Germany’s New Far-Right”
https://youtu.be/l2SjWowpynYFear mongering, it worked in the USA with the snowflakes that voted for the pedophile. Grown ass men, ya know I’m rough and tough, scared like the little cucks they are. Good luck stay safe with the rise of fuck stains
I don’t know, I think the misinformation has been that Germany isn’t a nation teetering on a collapse into fascism while directly supporting the ongoing Palestinian Genocide.
The failure is from the center to provide anything of value except the capacity to shut down all positive attempts at progress by the left, same as it was/is in the US.
Also the far right is clearly in cahoots with russia but is that really news?
(again, same as in US)
I’m questioning the validity of this vote due to irregularities in the campaign and external interference I’d start an investigation if I were Germany.
I think you just don’t want to face the reality of how much German society apologizes and makes space for white nationalism/fascism.
I think…
Pease don’t put words in my mouth. Don’t be like the enemy if you wanna be friends.
shrugs why else do you immediately jump to election interference then?
you immediately jump to election interference then?
Because there is and was,. Germany and other countries have been trying to cope with it for years. I just don’t know the exact details.
So, now that you know that, why did you jump to your conclusions?
Unless you have substantiated evidence to share that this election was tampered with please stop spreading potential misinformation about it.
Putler and his rapist ally Trump have been responsible for frauding their own elections
Putler and his rapist ally Trump have been responsible for frauding their own elections
Right but the way that has occurred is well documented in both cases with Trump and Putin, what I am asking here is beyond indirect dark money funding of political groups in Germany (which is definitely wrong I am not defending it) what are the mechanisms of interference that are so grave as to make people question the results of the election?
What are the nature of these accusations? Actual faked votes? “Gerrymandering” style manipulation? Deregistration of valid voters?
I don’t doubt that Putin would try to do this kind of thing, not for a second but also when I look at my own country… Putin didn’t need to make Trump win, we did that all by ourselves, yes russia threw gasoline on the fire but focusing on that is missing the point of fact that we started the fire here all by ourselves.
while directly supporting the ongoing Palestinian Genocide
Thank you for bringing up a perfect example for insane desinformation: No, anti-air corvettes are not used to attack land-based targets but to defend against actual real attacks. No, submarines and torpedos are not air-dropped onto Palestinian civilians but against enemy navies (the famous Palestinian one included 😂). No, armored vests are not weapons used to club people to death.
How dows it feel to be an totally lost propaganda victim complaining about propaganda?Also the far right is clearly in cahoots with russia
…and China… and the US… and every single one paying. Fascism is a way to continue the capitalist transfer of all money to the top while keeping the population diverted by imaginary enemies. So naturally fascists are deeply corrupt and willing to work for exactly everyone willing to pay.
Oh so you still think the “only defensive weapons” line still works?
Pathetic.
You insult my intelligence by thinking this kind of shitty logic will work on me, you also insult this community by talking down to their intelligence with lazy arguments like this.
When a Genocide and War is occurring, if you give tools of war to the people perpetrating Genocide and War you are responsible for empowering their Genocide and War, whether the weapons are “defensive” or not is a laughable distraction from that basic reality.
Pertinently, in modern warfare the most crucial enablers for offensive action are air defenses and ballistic missile defenses, this is a basic consequence of combined arms warfare and it makes your framing absurd based on its first principles alone.
whether the weapons are “defensive” or not is a laughable distraction
Then why do stupid propagandists and their brain-dead victims need to lie contantly about those imaginary weapons used on Palestinians?
The thing is I actually agree with you that Israel needs to get every single bit of support cut, followed by heavy sanctions… for a start, that is.
But that doesn’t change the fact that idiots screaming lies about Germany’s active support of a genocide and all their delivered weapons used to kill Palestinians are indeed idiots that undermine their cause by being propaganda victims you can easily debunk and then ignore.
Then why do stupid propagandists and their brain-dead victims need to lie contantly about those imaginary weapons used on Palestinians?
There are a couple of alarming things about your response here.
First, why are you so focused on being angry at the people you consider who are misinformed about something you have explicitly said is a target of propaganda? Even taking your argument at face value, you seem angriest at the symptom of misinformed people not the causes driving it, which I think reveals a lot about your character.
Second if you don’t think Germany has been directly supporting Israel during the course of the Palestinian Genocide, you are simply misinformed and I urge you to take a step back and reconsider some of the things you may have dismissed said by others just because it clashed with how you thought things were.
Keep your damn eye on the ball, what matters is the Genocide stops not that you get to be righteously angry at people who you considered were fooled by misinformation/disinformation.
First, why are you so focused on being angry at the people
to quote you:
Pathetic
You insult my intelligence
this shitty logic
you insult this community
laughable
Stop projecting your insanity on others. Just because you start frothing at the mouth when people say things you don’t like, others are not “angry” just because they tell you were to shove your bullshit.
And most importantly for you (although i’m absolutely sure your delusion will reject that sentiment, too): people are not disagreeing with your general sentiment just because they correct your desinformation. But they will absolutely then dismiss you as an idiot not worth discussing with, when you instantly start spouting insults.
That being said… /ignore
Well, they played with fire, still believe liberal system can stand still. They try to handle this castle card. It will stomp us very hard.
Those brilliant economists, people suggested great solutions that :
- will end up with the most massive immigration we ever seen, because most land we become inhospitables.
- will crush our economic system because of power outage, unhealty working place that kill workers (thus maybe more strike ?), climate disaster (hurricane, drought, flood…)
- shorter live span : death due to air polution, bacterial and resistant viruse, lesser farm crop…
That’s a good opportunity to offer them one ticket to mars. And of course, they won’t be impacted like us.
Billionnaires fuel liberalism and fascism. Only through free socialism and communism will the labourer find true liberty.
#Eat the Rich
Yes, let’s send them to mars. I would also remove State, we don’t need those worldeater.
But it is not enough, I believe in collective with shared responsibility. Firstly, we need to take back media and reverse the way news create and diffuse information. I would like to see a swiss voting system in France.
Well, they played with fire, still believe liberal system can stand still.
BAHAHAHAHAHA
ok
Dunno why you react like that. I don’t find it funny at all because in the end, it will impact us, even more when you are part of minority and deaf.
Probably, lesser than other countries, but it will hurt us.
We already endured several hot summers, it worsen each years. And we saw the premise of water war. French far-right want to destroy environmental associations, social aids, environmental norms and workers’s right and expel people from abroad.
We are no different from usa with Trump. We are already here.
Even if i talk to people, try to convaince them that we will be the next country under far-right. And even if they haven’t won, they grow each year, they pour their ideas and their userbase grow each year. Each political party are glued to far-right ideas. They could influence others countries as usa did, for example Canada.
It start with the media. Maybe it won’t influence you, but other people can fall. I find it scary. I fear that moment the most.
Yes but neoliberalism was necessary to get to this point, fascism is worse than neoliberalism but that doesn’t change the fact that neoliberalism inevitably leads to a collapse into fascism by refusing to deal with structural issues until it is too late.
We both agree, the sad part is that history seems to repeat.
