There’s a debate that goes like: America supports the Zionist cause because of strategic interest in the middle east, to test weaponry, to park aircraft, etc. The other side says America supports Zionism because of powerful lobbying from organizations like AIPAC and the ADL. Then I guess there’s a third explanation involving American evangelicals and their religious doctrines, along with their own lobbying and campaigning.
For me personally it seems like it’s all of those things at the same time, with perhaps strategic interest being the most pressing. I say that because of the multiple instances of the CIA discovering things like Israeli spying equipment in Washington DC, and yet nothing is done. There are literal Israeli intelligence assets working as aides to senators and nothing is done. I only ever see feds do that when they’ve been instructed something is off-limits.
I also know this wasn’t always the case, because people like Johnathan Pollard got thrown in jail. And I know the Bush Sr admin was less amicable. So what’s yall’s stance here
i’m not, i was highlighting that some support is independent of the imperial interest.
and apparently i think the christian dominionists and eschatologists are more independent than you do. that’s not something we’re going to settle in a random forum discussion.
I mean it could be. We were founded by people who thought that God gave them the right to rape, murder, enslave, and torture the people of this land if they didn’t immediately convert to Christianity and follow the orders of Christian men. That was literally who Europe flooded this land with. What independence would a state power structure have from those sorts of people when they were literally here from the beginning organizing literally everything they put their hands on in accordance with their will. Sure, it is a faction, but it was always a faction, and the shifting identities and boundaries and alliances and narratives are all part and parcel of collaboratively maintaining the power structure with all the other factions that were part of the power structure.
The illusion is that the US is somehow separate from the process that created the dominionists and therefore the dominionists are working to “take over”, just like the illusion that Israel is separate from the process that created it and somehow it’s operating to control the US. The Israelis are Europeans, just like the Americans are. They are all maintaining the same empire together, in collaboration, and they all have their roles to play, and they always have.
they’re not so harmonious amongst themselves. less of what i think “take over” implies, and more a fight for primacy. israel and its agents pull shit that is not in the interest of the larger empire and is actively harmful to the maintenance of global hegemony in favor of their “greater israel” manifest destiny.
the dog isn’t walking the man, but it can jerk the leash and make him take a step.
Yes, absolutely, but that’s the cost of building an empire. The factions in the empire are essentially required for its maintenance while simultaneously being a threat to its maintenance. That’s not unique the Israel faction or the dominionist faction. It’s true of all the key factions of the power structure. And all those factions are mostly aware the other factions exist and that they all play vital roles in the maintenance of empire. And when the pressure against the empire starts to break it down, each faction fights for their own survival and independently decides which other factions need to be disciplined and on which timelines.
That’s why I don’t think it’s worth asking if Israel is in charge or conspiring or leading or whatever. It’s clear that it’s not the dominant faction, it’s clear that it is a mission critical faction to the empire, it’s clear that most of the other factions have agreed that the Israeli faction is critical to their collective survival, and together they all make the choices that maintain Israel.