Damnit, Stabby, I was trying (not very hard, mind you) to work.
There’s a lot of back and forth going on in this thread, a lot of it around environmental impact of coal, and land uses. I’ll try to clear some of this up. At worst, you’ll just get my ramblings on the topic.
Nuclear energy. I largely agree with @arrow74@lemmy.zip. Nuclear has a shitty stigma, and that really precludes it from being even a transitional energy source, particularly in North America. While the wastes live forever (essentially) they are concentrated, and after a century or so, they are generally similar to other toxic wastes (e.g., primarily alpha and beta radiation), and if properly stored, are pretty safe. I’m not a nuclear expert, however, so this is more of an opinion than anything, though maybe a bit more informed than the average schmoe (though schmoe I am).
Coal mining - historically, very destructive, no land use planning, just let the pit fill on its own, Metal Leaching and Acid Rock Drainage (herein: ML/ARD) issues. ML/ARD issues arise when you have metal and sulphur bearing rock that’s exposed to atmosphere over time. Sulphur oxidizes, drops pH, and leaches metals out of the rock. This can occur sometimes at neutral pHs but it’s less common and dependent on the metals in the rock. If you just leave the pit to fill on its own, it takes a long time, and you’re more prone to ML/ARD and water quality issues as a result. If you actively flood the pit, you can largely avoid these issues, but you still need to model, check, and monitor your future water quality so you don’t have a pit full of toxic crap. Usually, if water quality is poor, they can use semi-passive treatment (e.g. in pit bioreactors) or actively (water treatment plant) treat water until water quality is good enough to release to the surrounding environment, once the pit’s water elevation reaches whatever target they have set out for it.
@MythicalMenace@slrpnk.net points out how mining companies are often required to put money back into the towns around them. This is part of social closure of the mine, so they don’t leave behind ghost towns. Generally, though, it doesn’t work. Towns need another source of employment once the mine shuts down, but we’re largely starting to see mining companies be required to have some sort of social transition plan in place for workers and people connected to the mine.
2a - Mining wastes @grue@lemmy.world yes, coal wastes can be toxic, this links back to ML/ARD I mention earlier. Tailings are crushed (usually to sand sized) rock that’s been processed - they usually have faster ML/ARD onset due to their smaller particle size -> increased surface area. @SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world also tied to ML/ARD and water management -see #2 above
3 - coal plants: not much to add here, but they are often a source of metal deposition (via dust, fly ash), and radioactivity (radon in rock).
Nuclear waste is pretty bad and incredibly expensive to store. That storage also needs to be maintained for the entire time it’s stored. Burying it is not enough, that will contaminate the water somewhere. Not to mention the upkeep on nuclear plants is very expensive and even then they only have a lifespan of 5 decades. Plus, it only takes one disaster for a meltdown. That said, these are problems that could be addressed and mitigated and in some areas it makes sense.
I’m not saying its not harmful, but it does drop in risk over time, and it is concentrated. In comparison, one waste rock dump I’m dealing with is about 237 ha in size, and contains 21 million tonnes of ML/ARD generating waste rock. Another mine I know will contain 3 billion m3 of tailings in their tailings storage facility.
Dealing with any waste is not cheap, though the level of effort is smaller with nuclear than traditional mining wastes. If you store the waste in engineered drums/cells etc. which are water tight and stick them underground, after siting the storage location well, you’re in pretty good shape.
Damnit, Stabby, I was trying (not very hard, mind you) to work.
There’s a lot of back and forth going on in this thread, a lot of it around environmental impact of coal, and land uses. I’ll try to clear some of this up. At worst, you’ll just get my ramblings on the topic.
Nuclear energy. I largely agree with @arrow74@lemmy.zip. Nuclear has a shitty stigma, and that really precludes it from being even a transitional energy source, particularly in North America. While the wastes live forever (essentially) they are concentrated, and after a century or so, they are generally similar to other toxic wastes (e.g., primarily alpha and beta radiation), and if properly stored, are pretty safe. I’m not a nuclear expert, however, so this is more of an opinion than anything, though maybe a bit more informed than the average schmoe (though schmoe I am).
Coal mining - historically, very destructive, no land use planning, just let the pit fill on its own, Metal Leaching and Acid Rock Drainage (herein: ML/ARD) issues. ML/ARD issues arise when you have metal and sulphur bearing rock that’s exposed to atmosphere over time. Sulphur oxidizes, drops pH, and leaches metals out of the rock. This can occur sometimes at neutral pHs but it’s less common and dependent on the metals in the rock. If you just leave the pit to fill on its own, it takes a long time, and you’re more prone to ML/ARD and water quality issues as a result. If you actively flood the pit, you can largely avoid these issues, but you still need to model, check, and monitor your future water quality so you don’t have a pit full of toxic crap. Usually, if water quality is poor, they can use semi-passive treatment (e.g. in pit bioreactors) or actively (water treatment plant) treat water until water quality is good enough to release to the surrounding environment, once the pit’s water elevation reaches whatever target they have set out for it.
@MythicalMenace@slrpnk.net points out how mining companies are often required to put money back into the towns around them. This is part of social closure of the mine, so they don’t leave behind ghost towns. Generally, though, it doesn’t work. Towns need another source of employment once the mine shuts down, but we’re largely starting to see mining companies be required to have some sort of social transition plan in place for workers and people connected to the mine.
2a - Mining wastes @grue@lemmy.world yes, coal wastes can be toxic, this links back to ML/ARD I mention earlier. Tailings are crushed (usually to sand sized) rock that’s been processed - they usually have faster ML/ARD onset due to their smaller particle size -> increased surface area. @SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world also tied to ML/ARD and water management -see #2 above
3 - coal plants: not much to add here, but they are often a source of metal deposition (via dust, fly ash), and radioactivity (radon in rock).
Nuclear waste is pretty bad and incredibly expensive to store. That storage also needs to be maintained for the entire time it’s stored. Burying it is not enough, that will contaminate the water somewhere. Not to mention the upkeep on nuclear plants is very expensive and even then they only have a lifespan of 5 decades. Plus, it only takes one disaster for a meltdown. That said, these are problems that could be addressed and mitigated and in some areas it makes sense.
I’m not saying its not harmful, but it does drop in risk over time, and it is concentrated. In comparison, one waste rock dump I’m dealing with is about 237 ha in size, and contains 21 million tonnes of ML/ARD generating waste rock. Another mine I know will contain 3 billion m3 of tailings in their tailings storage facility.
Dealing with any waste is not cheap, though the level of effort is smaller with nuclear than traditional mining wastes. If you store the waste in engineered drums/cells etc. which are water tight and stick them underground, after siting the storage location well, you’re in pretty good shape.
I won’t contest nuclear plant upkeep.
How long are those drums good for? I wouldn’t count on anything staying leakproof for a hundred years, let alone thousands.