• plyth@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    An independent Europe would fit into the multipolar world. A dependend Europe will be used by the US to decouple China and Russia from the rest of the world.

    For Russia snd China, an independend Europe would be best.

    • NorskSud@lemmy.pt
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      2 days ago

      A subjugated, without own defensive capacity, better for them? Then they can dismiss our democracies and freedom with the simple accusation of being a “US colony”. A strong, independent and autonomous democratic Europe with a strong social system is the biggest threat to any dictatorship or empire.

      • plyth@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        Democracy is a political argument while decoupling is an economic argument.

        If the US manages to economically isolate Russia and China, or even China alone, the US will maintain hegemony and ultimately crush China.

        I don’t see that existential threat from Europe’s democracy. If Europe becomes that independent that it becomes a role model, then Russia and China can follow suit. They both can’t become full democracies now because the US would influence the elections to its advantage.

        • NorskSud@lemmy.pt
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 hours ago

          Do you think democracy is not an existential threat to the current regimes of Russia and China!?

          • plyth@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            57 minutes ago

            It is in the way it is used now: Open markets to gain access to the media. Use positions in companies to pay politicians. Use that to control the elite or replace it.

            Lemmy and Reddit show how few people care about free media on their own. The US republicans show how much distortion is possible. The West has the best entertainment. The prospect of each country that allows western elites would be to be treated worse than black people in Mississippi or Alabama.

            Without that threat I don’t think that China and Russia could maintain their cohesion for their dictatorships. They would also transition to democracy. Democracy is best because it allows for a violence free transition of power. It just doesn’t work if outsiders tip the scale.