You are a little too comfortable telling people how to talk. I’m seeing that a lot these days.
When we tell people not to murder, we are telling them how to act. When we tell people not to be racist, we are telling people how to talk. Telling people not to do things is a normal thing to do. The content of what is being told is the important part.
Is there a particular part of the op that you find friction with?
Guys no one ever says “don’t even ASK!”. It’s just that if you do ask, and the person does not have the energy or the capacity of explaining at that moment for any reason, don’t push and don’t get angry. Being oppressed is tiring, and having to explain yourself all the time is even more tiring. That’s all. If you are genuinely curious, you will find resources to learn and even people willing to teach. Just don’t expect EVERYONE to be that person.
Well said :)
Playing devil’s advocate: Shouldn’t those who are not in a marginalized group be somewhat expected to have a modicum of understanding for those around them, though? No one should be expected to explain how, or why, they are who they are, and being pointedly asked about it generally puts a contentious focus on that aspect. Many, many people have put their energy and effort to explain all sorts of aspects about themselves, which are readily available at a moments notice. Why not rely on those instead of bringing up a potentially vulnerable topic and/or using a single aspect of one’s identity as a talking point?
Well yeah that’s what I meant. Learning is necessary, teaching is voluntary.
Every time I see stuff like this I instantly think of:
Like, congrats, it’s nice to pat yourself on the back and all but…
I think it enforces itself by being off-putting to bigots. How many of them are playing it “incorrectly” to own the libs rather than just playing something they perceive as less hostile?
none, because the title and cover art alone would put them off.
I would play this despite not respecting fat people 🤷
Not with me you fucking won’t.
They lost me at the last point tbh. I don’t blame anyone for not knowing and you shouldn’t blame me for not learning about something that hasn’t affected me.
It’s your responsibility to learn, not their responsibility to teach.
also, found this from a tumblr post
My problem with “it’s not my job to educate you!” is that if you’re an activist then yes, it is your job, that’s part of what activism is. If you call yourself an activist but in the next breath refuse to offer education to those who are able to listen, your activism is performative/disingenuous at best and actively harmful at worst. Telling people to “google it” it not helpful when google has become increasingly unusable and bogged down with advertisements and unusable results - not to mention, not everyone can be expected to tell the difference between accurate sources and, say, dogwhistle-y propaganda messages, especially if they are new to leftism. You could be doing more to push them towards the right than to help them understand leftism, all because of “purity politics” or clique behaviors or superiority complexes or whatever it is that’s causing all these people to behave this way.
Not everyone is an activist though. And even those that are, they need down time sometimes. I get it’s tough for those on the spectrum to understand, but in this context, let people at the table just play the fucking game.
Yeah I’m not reading all that. Google it.
We’re talking about a fucking game, not an undergraduate ethics class.
The meme is making the effort required to be educated or a fascist equivalent when they are not.
Being a fascist is intellectually easy.
Got a problem? Blame migrants Can’t get ahead? Blame Jews Can’t afford a house? Black people got too uppity
It’s a one trick pony, all problems are caused by someone else and I’m perfect.
Understanding the systemic reasons why women still aren’t paid the same as men or why a disproportionate amount of African Americans are incarcerated is hard and requires a lot of foundational groundwork to overcome the huge capitalist propaganda machine.
It’s not their responsibility to teach but it’s also not my responsibility to keep abreast of all social developments. It’s inappropriate to gatekeep due to someone’s naive ignorance.
Picture this. Sitting at a table game and someone drops a term or phrase that I don’t recognise. Am I going to run to the toilet and google that term? Or am I just gonna say 'yo, what’s that mean?"
Hmm, yeah.
This shit that you’re doing, right here? Nobody wants to deal with that.
I believe what they are referring to is that it’s not any individuals responsibility to ensure that any other individuals knowledge of their marginalization is complete. That’s not saying that individuals can’t do it, nor that they shouldn’t call attention to specific issues as effect them at that time. It’s saying that they are not responsible to do the work of teaching someone that which they should learn themselves once the issue has been raised. To do otherwise often feels like the person has to justify their existence and struggles to anyone who asks. That’s an unreasonable load for the marginalized person to carry.
So not blame, just where the burthen of learning falls once an issue comes up.
I wholly don’t understand it. If one brings up an issue it kind of is up to the person to explain why it is an issue, no? I’d just tell ya I’m part of a marginalised group? Like, I’m the US version of “white”, rich enough to afford a vacation a year and a house, cishet. My marginalization is not brought up on those bullet points so you’d have to go digging down my comments to find it. Like, how often do these issues get brought up?
Like, the person exists allright if they’re in front of me but if they have an active problem they do have to make a case among the group, as otherwise it seems very easily weaponized.
As for the reason I’m a marginalised group, I got falsely accused of raping someone and that wholly destroyed my social life. I hope you have an understanding of why I’m very weary of these kind of systems.
What this is talking about would be if I were to now ask you questions about your marginalization and demanded answers. But since that is not relevant to our discussion here and because it’s not your job to ensure that I am informed on any issues relating to your marginalization I wouldn’t ask the questions in the first place. You shouldn’t have to feel like you have to justify your existence to anybody who possess by and is curious.
People sometimes treat visible members of marginalized groups like they are information dispensers. That just because they are viable they are responsible for entertaining their curiousity. In specific instances where it’s relevant and invited a discussion of their marginalization is fine. But it’s is not the job of someone to ensure any person interested is told about whatever they want to ask.
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Is asking okay though ?
Ask politely, show a genuine interest, and don’t try to undermine what they say. Also read the room if it’s going into a topic that someone doesn’t feel comfortable talking about and be ready to learn another day!
Thanks for the honest answer !
Yeah but it would be good to educate yourself on your own steam as well
That’s some grade A virtue signaling. I bet they felt VERY smug about what they accomplished with this. I fucking hate people like this. What DARK shit are you hiding that you’re constantly trying to convince people of your virtue?
Even though we usually talk about it in a derogatory way, virtue signaling is not inherently bad. A shirt that says “trans rights are human rights” is virtue signaling, but the performance is in itself beneficial to society, even if the wearer is only doing it to feel trendy and special.
What they accomplished with this is hostility to bigots who might otherwise have felt welcome.
I don’t think they’re actually accomplishing any of those things. I’d argue a shirt is a demonstration IRL of support, which can raise awareness or normalize support for a cause (although not super effectively). Things like this make the “bigots” you are pwning just write this off as the usual DEI bullshit that nobody likes while also turning off anyone without your EXACT strain of identitarian politics, even if they don’t actually oppose any specific sentiment in the statement. It is literally counterproductive because it makes you (and your cause) look angry and mean and like the bully.
Who is it being mean towards or bullying? Who is it angry at?
People looking at the webpage this is on?
A dark and evil desire for a more compassionate world free from bigots and fascists. There I said it.
Basic empathy and a desire to make the world a better place?
Lol no. These people rarely have empathy for anyone but themselves.
Exactly. White collar, upwardly mobile women (usually white) trying to accrue social credit for themselves to preen for other similarly minded women with no real desire to make anything materially better for anyone else.
Can’t count the number of times I’ve had “allies” try to call me out for speaking about my own experience. Identity politics is a cancer.
L take
This one seems a little more obvious.
the bigots wanting to play “thirsty sword lesbians” are going to be so upset when they read this
You have no idea! They are absolutely seething at being called out like this, even though the game is basically “Conservatives stay away, the RPG”. I’ve ended up in quite a few Reddit slapfights over it.
As far as I can tell, what drives them nuts is the “fascists and bigots” bit. Basically they apparently self-identify as bigots and fascists, but deeply resent anyone else doing so.
even though the game is basically “Conservatives stay away, the RPG”. I’ve ended up in quite a few Reddit slapfights over it.
This seems frustratingly common. Like fascists who love Rage Against the Machine because they’re functionally illiterate and fail to realize the music is antithetical to their worldview.
The good old “when did RATM went all political”
You’d be surprised at how many people were up in arms about it.
If they could read.
It does feel like pandering but hey, at least they’re explicit about it.
These are about as useful as a Tumblr DNI.
DNI in Spanish stands for Documento Nacional de Identidad so everytime i saw these I always have to take a double step, what are ya asking ID for?
Well, everyone is about to start asking for an ID on the web, it seems, so you might be about right soon
It hurt the feelings of a bunch of bigots online when the sourcebook came out so I’d say it did some good work
The goal isn’t to actually prevent those people from playing the game, obviously that’s not possible. The goal is to piss them off so it’s obvious to the other people they would be playing with that they are not fun or maybe safe to be around.
