Personally I think it’s silly as hell. Qualia is obviously a biological component of experience… Not some weird thing that science will never be able to put in to words.
I’ve been listening to a lot of psychology podcasts lately and for some reason people seem obsessed with the idea despite you needing to make the same logical leaps to believe it as any sort of mysticism… Maybe I am just tripping idk
Exactly. I’ve read of people who have medical alienation where they mentally feel like they aren’t the ones controlling their own body. This is a neurological condition and can be treated. Some people have an extremely prolonged sense of deja vu after having a TBI, yet we intuitively think of deja vu as some woo woo stuff.
Heck, I read today that you can diagnose someone with aphantasia by seeing if their eyes dialate when they are told to picture a bright light.
All of this suggests, to me at least, that all of our sensory inputs combine to make the illusion of experience, which is useful for homeostasis
isn’t deja vu short term memory shortcircuit where your brain reorders events as they are currently happening to give you impressions that you know stuff before it happens? (or cognition lapse while event happens, where short term sensory inputs are not cognized but are processed all the same, so when you catch up cognitively you get impression you knew that already)
in other words, had anyone had exact written description of event before deja vu episode?
(because i think i managed to catch my brain in this act one time, it’s a very surreal feeling, **it’s like sleep paralysis of thought, you can feel your thought being railroaded/moving in slow motion, sounds you hear being predetermined, your own voice being predetermined, you cannot imagine anything to act differently or can’t act on impulse to do so, and then you catch up to real world and that’s exact moment deja vu ends, leading me to believe it’s some sort of disconnect there between short term memory and higher thought, because i could try to consciously remember stuff from childhood in the moment (so in long term memory), and it was different than deja vu remembrance in feeling)
I think what you are describing in your last paragraph is the medical alienation I was talking about. I dont know if thats the right term… people seem to love that word lol
kinda sorta? but for me deja vu was always (mainly) auditory (with thoughts sprinkled in, so i “remember” thoughts and feelings “again”), e.g. i perceive words i’m hearing and my own words as an exact match to “long forgotten memory/dream” and start to know what would happen (audiotorily, with matched tone/voice etc) exactly but don’t know where my hands would be, for example, and don’t feel that strong deja vu of “this is where my hands would be” according to this “memory” when i see them. Actions and visuals are not primal in experience, compared to third person body experience, where you concentrate on actions and hands (at least i think so?), where it’s puppet like/are these my hands type dealio.
*(i do have a funny deja vu story, where i was alone at work, started feeling deja vu from some sounds and guess what i “remembered” hearing?)
spoiler
ringing in the ears. stellar work brain, fucking thanks. if deja vu was real woo-woo shit, i would have abandoned it right then and there, what kind of prediction is this.
(i don’t know if it’s quirk of my perception of focusing on sounds/thoughts, but people usually sharply separate those two phenomenons, where deja vu is as you said woo-woo shit, while third person view is scary as shit typically. although people observing their own operations in the out of body type thingy usually describe extreme calmness and fatalism, which seems very close to third person phenomenon on description, maybe it’s due to drugs/dreams vs actual reality?)
There’s a new study that seems to indicate octopuses can experience the fake limb illusion. I’m not sure the quality of the research and methods, but the fake limb illusion definitely seems like an interesting example case for this discussion.
The illusion that is being experienced by what?
The illusion being experienced by the same agent that created it.
So experience is illusory, but there’s an agent that experiences that illusion? So experience isn’t illusory then
Experience isn’t totally illusory, as stated in one of my previous comments. But we can certainly see illusion take shape by the fact that I can’t see my nose right now, or any other of those “fill in the blank” tricks our mind plays to make our “consciousness” a seamless experience, but if they were the sum total of our experience we wouldn’t have much need for experience at all now would we?
Ok. Then what exactly is the purpose of arguing that some of it is? You’re back to square one.
What do you mean? Can you see your nose at all moments? If not, illusion is filling in the gap to provide a biological advantage to those who do not. A snake biting you within the FOV of your nose is bad. Making a fake snake where your nose is (based on previous snake data) seems logical.
So all you’re arguing is that illusions exist. That doesn’t address the actual subject at all.
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