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- It is relevant that the USSR took a look at what the Nazis were doing and said, “All in brother, let’s split Poland and shake hands in the middle,” and only turned on them once the Nazis broke the alliance from their side.
- Is is hugely instructive to look at the differing responses of different levels and segments of “The West.” US industry (and a lot of the press)? Sure let’s genocide sounds good. Communist USSR leadership? Sure let’s genocide sounds good (as mentioned). Most US people? Eh, who cares, it’s not our problem. Faux-democratic racist US and British government? FUCK THAT LET’S MESS EM UP ARM THE BOMBERS. Hitler was genuinely very surprised that Britain and the US at the highest levels didn’t want to be friends with him, because he bought the same kind of simplistic thinking that the .ml people do, that the US is capitalist and corrupt and all they care about is money and their own safety and they’re basically fascist at heart. Sure, that’s true of some segments. Not all of them, though, and there are some important ones and important situations that matter where it is not.
- In fairness to dessalines and semi-agreeing with part of his point here, one of those segments which is okay with fascism is low- and mid-level law enforcement. There were massive fascist plots in the US which were more or less ignored by the feds, causing nothing even resembling a red scare, while they were scrutinizing imaginary communists for any trace of rebellion and ignoring obvious actual plans for armed rebellion by American Nazis. “Prequel” by Rachel Maddow talks about it.
You missed the reason for the post. Dude has a hard-on for banning “genocidal liberals”
He’s up Putin’s ass regardless of the topic, so that’s a non-starter.
Oh, yeah, you are completely correct in terms of it being sadly hilarious that he’s trying so hard to tightly control the narrative on lemmy.ml as if that horse hasn’t already left the barn, found a new barn to be a part of, met a lady horse, had some foals, and retired to a nice pleasant place beside a lake where he can look back on his life of service.
Guy: Everyone’s been exposed to liberals at this point. The people who are susceptible to being convinced, have been, and the ones who are resistant to the libs are still around and probably planning to stay. You can relax and just go back to making nice non-political counterculture subs and periodically talking about how awesome North Korea is or spilling the beans that American cops are racist sometimes.
He’s getting his terminology confused with “conservative democrats”. But it shouldn’t surprise, it is .ml, if you’re not left of Stalin you are a genocidal maniac. I’m sure the irony is lost on them
You want irony? I was curious about the context of OP’s post and went looking at dessalines’s profile, and got distracted before I accomplished the mission because I immediately found:
Murderers don’t get pardoned because other people committed murder.
Dude… pardoning or outright supporting literal murderers because of what someone else did is the entirety of the .ml worldview as far as I can tell.
I’d love to know what medications or drugs that tool is using.
He’s getting his terminology confused with “conservative democrats”.
Not really. What we call conservative democrats are simply liberals in the original meaning of that word, which is commonly used outside North America and by a good chunk of leftists. “Liberal” is also more general in that it doesn’t capture only Pelosi and her ilk, but most people in American national politics other than maybe Bernie.
it is .ml, if you’re not left of Stalin you are a genocidal maniac.
And if you’re left of Stalin you’re a CIA tool. These people hate anarchists too.
Most people who would call themselves liberal means they are pro human rights. It’s really that simple.
I have found that the word “liberal” has been sufficiently divorced from meaning that it’s best avoided at this point.
Generally the role that it plays in the .ml worldview is “I know you’re a liberal because you showed approval for (literally any US politics thing), and all liberals tacitly support Israel, so YOU SUPPORT ISRAEL HOW COULD YOU YOU ARE LITERALLY A WEREWOLF ARGHARHJGEBFJHSDBVMSDFBF.”
Nowadays for me, the term “liberal” just means not an idiot wannabe-socialist/communist, and not a trump-worshiping minion.
They brand „genocidal liberal“ everyone who isn’t foaming at the mouth to demand the destruction of Israel.
Also anyone who supports Ukraine, or Hong Kong, or pretty much anything.
Generally, the logic is that Ukraine was “genociding” the ethnic Russians under their purview (they were not), and so Russia was forced to step in and put a stop to it, and oh no now things have gotten out of hand oh well let’s blow up some more power stations, but what can you do.
No, you get branded as a genocidal liberal because you’re a foaming at the mouth Islamophobic Zionist.
- It is relevant that the USSR took a look at what the Nazis were doing and said, “All in brother, let’s split Poland and shake hands in the middle,” and only turned on them once the Nazis broke the alliance from their side.
That’s not entirely true. Both sides were fully planning to betray eachother. Hitler hating communism wasn’t a secret in the slightest, it’s just that Stalin was assuming Hitler wouldn’t be quite so stupid as to attack him before finishing Brittain first.
I had never heard this, do you have a place I can read more?
Stalin hated communism too, though, he is a world champion at executing communists. He probably executed more communists than anyone else in history (including German communists who fled from Hitler, and also helped Hitler find and execute German communists in Germany before the war even started for some reason). He basically just wanted to be in charge, as far as I can tell, he didn’t really like the whole “workers control the means of production” thing and while I don’t know much about his early thoughts on it I don’t see a whole lot of economic justice in anything he did while he was in power. I’m not an expert but I feel like he and Hitler would have gotten along fine from his side.
He basically just wanted to be in charge, as far as I can tell, he didn’t really like the whole “workers control the means of production” thing
Stalin (and the Bolsheviks in general) were collectivists. They thought the ideal/only implementation of communism to be for the state to nationalize everything and manage national wealth rationally through collective labor of proletariat, which is pretty much what he did. Now this always was and will always be a ruse for obvious reasons, but it seems like Stalin, just like other Bolsheviks from before 1918, believed in that ruse. That’s what we see in the Five-Year Plans and de-kulakization, for example. Their line of thinking seems to have been “the proletariat are represented by the party of the proletariat + we are the party of the proletariat = when we control the means of production, the workers control the means of production”. It’s fucking stupid, but these are MLs and proto-MLs we’re talking about; of course their mental gymnastics are fucking stupid.
I also want to note and stress that this was in no way unique to Stalin. The Left Opposition (Trotsky and crew) were pushing for the exact same thing before Stalin allied with right-leaning Politburo members to oust them, and what Stalin did bears strong resemblance to what Lenin was up to during his time in power (see: War Communism). TL;DR: They’re all true believers, and they’re all pigs. Fuck MLs.
Their line of thinking seems to have been “the proletariat are represented by the party of the proletariat + we are the party of the proletariat = when we control the means of production, the workers control the means of production”.
L’worker, et moi.
Just like how China is still a shining Marxist government, which is why the whole world uses them for a bunch of its production, even though the workers owning their own means of production means they get to keep a greater share of the profits and so it’s more expensive… than… yeah, something like that.
L’worker, et moi.
Wow, how did I not think of that? That’s literally it.
I had never heard this, do you have a place I can read more?
Not really. It’s just the logical conclusion of Stalin not being an idiot, and Nazi’s being vehemently anti-bolshevik, and Stalin knew that.
Stalin himself was nicknamed “the grey blur” because he was so difficult to fathom, but he wasn’t dumb. A child could see the Nazis would break the pact, but he simply figured Hitler was as smart as him and wouldn’t do it yet. He had Germany by the balls, sitting on a massive pile of raw resources they needed desperately, only a complete idiot would turn on that…
And of course, Russia wasn’t exactly in amazing military shape in the early 40s, but since Stalin assumed Hitler would play it smart, he’d have time to prepare better. And since Russia had vastly more industrial potential than tiny Germany that was at war with the largest naval and colonial empire in the world, they were absolutely going take that time.
Now, would Stalin strike first in 1942, 1943 or even 1948? Who knows. Stalin didn’t even order breakfast in advance, let alone write down plans like that. But he knew the Molotov-von Ribbentrop Pact was a stopgap measure at best.
IDK, I get what you’re saying, but I feel like if this was as compelling and obvious as you’re saying some historians would also say it.
I just got disillusioned about Lindybeige not knowing what he’s talking about, so maybe I’m extra skeptical.
Quite a few works on the Soviet response to operation Barbarossa will mention it.
Stumbling Colossus (David Glantz) is a decent book that’s very readable, and it at the very least mentions this.
There’s also What Stalin Knew: the Enigma of Barbarossa, (David Murphy), which looks at the intelligence supplied to Stalin. It paints a picture that Stalin thought he was being lied to by people who wanted to attack Germany before they were ready, so he ignored all signs of the incoming attack.
I don’t really know any book that goes in depth on Stalin’s far future plans that would never come to pass, but it’s mentioned a fair bit.
It is relevant that the USSR took a look at what the Nazis were doing and said, “All in brother, let’s split Poland and shake hands in the middle,” and only turned on them once the Nazis broke the alliance from their side
To be fair, the USSR tried to contact the allies for months, but in 1939 they were not interested.
The USSR successfully contacted the allies and negotiations were had - the problem is that the USSR offered the Allies the same terms they offered the Nazis - that Eastern Europe would be delivered to them on a plate, and that the sovereign states of Eastern Europe would have no say about it.
The Soviets regarded the Western Allies saying that they didn’t have the authority to sign over the sovereignty of nations they didn’t control as a great offense, and sought out the Nazis instead.
Don’t be colonial challenge oh shit they actually did it, whoa
Do you have a place I can read more about this? I am interested.
Danke
Okay maybe it’s time to leave Lemmy for Piefed.
Sadly the main feeds on piefed.world are just timing out ATM. It’s growing pains and it will get fixed. But otherwise piefed has been great.
Sounds like Voyager compatibility is in the works, too.
I’m using it right now. In general the only compatibility issue I’ve had so far. Has been empty posting when trying to cross post. Though I think that recently started working. Outside of that everything that I would normally do under Lemmy has worked just fine.
Sweet! Is one able to subscribe to Lemmy communities via Piefed? Or are they completely separate?
To an average user they are functionally identical. You wouldn’t even hardly notice the difference. I believe Voyager has a data migration utilities. To you get you subscribed to all the same communities with no fuss. Interstellar does as well. Which is the one that I used to migrate over all my subscriptions. It was simple and easy.
I could’ve answered that question by just looking at your full username. Oops.
Thank you!
