Participation trophy monuments lmao
If the confederate monument was installed in the 19th century, I’ll hear the history argument.
If it was installed as an overtly racist response to civil rights movements in the 20th century, that shit is racist as hell and needs to disappear from public lands.
Nah. Tear 'em all down. The history can be left to the written word, detailing how they got destroyed. They don’t deserve any monument trying to extoll their “glory”. Rubble-ize them and put up memorials to the slaves in their place.
A collage/university in the UK (unfortunately can’t remember which one) dealt with a similar problem well. It had statues of the founders out front. Unfortunately, they made their money from the slave trade. There were calls to destroy the statues. They instead, moved them to a small, half forgot garden in the back. As well as their original descriptive plagues, some more were added, explaining how they made their fortunes, and the various moral failings we now see in them.
It seems to me like this struck a good balance. It acknowledged the good they did, while emphasising the bad. Failing to recognise both good and bad can occur in individuals is often how history can repeat itself.
In short, don’t destroy them. Instead, stick them at the back of a museum to the horrors of slavery, half forgotten, except for their crimes.
I like this approach, if we destroy the physical object, the history books will have less impact for future generations.
Add info about what horrible things they did, remove them from their place of honor, and put them in an alcove of shame.
No. Preserve them in museums as a reminder of what can happen.
History should never be destroyed, but that doesn’t mean it has to be celebrated.
History can and should be destroyed if we ever wish to move forward as a species. We can’t let idiots hold us back.
Perhaps, but it should be measured. Discarding harmful traditions and such is good, forgetting what we did wrong is bad. I think museums are a great place for these. We certainly don’t care for human sacrifice, but that doesn’t stop us from putting ritual daggers on display from ancient civilizations. No sense in forgetting something important and having to learn it all again, and large objects that stand as a monument to bad decisions can be subverted to a good cause.
With big bold letters that say “SLAVERY IS BAD” for any museums located anywhere that uses the phrase “War of Northern Aggression”.
I vote we melt them down and recast them into statues/memorials for civil right’s people. at least the bronze ones.
maybe even southern civil right’s people.
Your monuments don’t matter you fucking losers.
- a northerner
*Edit monuments not moments lol
Couldn’t agree more
~a Texan
The Daughters of the Confederacy can eat shit.
Oh, hell. I’ll link to it again. Fuck the South.
That was a fun read. Haha.
I’d like to see what the properly backed up statistics of the Republic States vs the Democrat States are not days.
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Everything to do with the confederacy, except from teaching about the civil war, should be banned in the US. That flag they love, ban it. Statues, rip them down. Locations named after conspirators, rename them. The civil war was an attempt to destroy the US and divide it in two. They lost, fortunately. All associations to the traitors they were should not be allowed. People who claim “it’s my heritage” heritage of what exactly? That you’re white? Your skin says that. That your family was racist? Not a good quality to be flaunting and something you should probably come to terms with.
We’re not big on banning things in the US. Just keep them off public land.
I think the better action, over a blatant violation of the 1st amendment, would to push back ourselves instead of trying to get the government to break its own rules.
Anytime someone uses the phrase “War of Northern Aggression”, pointedly correct them in saying “(American) Civil War”. Anytime they spout “states rights”, amend them with “to own humans and demand other countries return the people they want to enslave”. Rock the damned boat and use the 1st amendment how it should be. They are not protected from other people having disdain for them for being stupidly proud of atrocities. And you know what, being proud of being descended from racist slave owners is not a protected class. Just saying.
The government shouldn’t suppress speech. But we can certainly give them consequences for being assholes.
“War of Nothern Aggression” - Started by the confederates firing on Union soldiers at Fort Sumter.
“State’s Rights” - If you leave the Union, you’re no longer state in the Union with rights in the Union.
“Not about Slavery or race” - Articles of Confederacy first and foremost highlighted white supremacy and the servitude of negroes.
“It’s my heritage” - Fuck off. If you actually knew your heritage and history, you wouldn’t be loud and proud about it.
Hey Corey, your monuments don’t matter.
I wish I saved that meme I saw responding to “confederate statues are my heritage” with “destroying the confederacy is MY heritage”
EDIT:
Sure is weird how these people are obsessed with being traitors and also think they’re patriotic.
“thE PArtY oF LIncoLn” waves the flag of his enemies
- these fucking idiots.
It’s hilarious to me that redneck conservatives love to wave the flags of the Confederacy and the Nazis - the recipients of the two biggest beatdowns in US military history. Losers in every sense of the word.
Look up " The Daughters of the Confederacy". The monuments aren’t even historic.
Well the are historic in that they’re a part of the history of oppressing black people that continued after the Civil War. But doesn’t seem like history someone in the South should want to celebrate.
Which Southern monuments?
The loser ones dedicated to the slavery loving losers who fought and LOST against the u.s.
The Holocaust was probably worse.
The sad part here is that you’re probably wrong.
As horrible as the Holocaust was, from a numbers standpoint alone, the transatlantic slave trade accounted for more people stolen from their homes.
Now, that’s the entirety of the transatlantic slave trade. A couple of hundred years of pain and torment. But it also only counts the number of people stolen from home and sold into slavery, not the number of children born into slavery who lived their entire, and often short, lives working backbreaking labor. Well, that’s what the men did. The women were raped until they were no longer physically capable of giving birth again.
Contrast the Holocaust, at most you have 10 years of horror, from the passage of the Nuremberg Laws in 1935 until the end of the war in 1945. It was traumatizing for the survivors, but the strong could move on with their lives.
Slaves who were freed at the end of the civil war were often basically re-enslaved via that fun little loophole in the 13th amendment. Corrupt judges in the south had a full racket going. They would assign court fees to and black man arrested by their corrupt police, and then sell said black man to a plantation owner as part of covering the debt.
If you thought the horrors of slavery were bad, the convict leasing and debt peonage schemes were so much worse. Literally working people to death because the plantation owners could simply pick up a new slave at the courthouse for a small fee. A smaller fee in places where the plantation owner was the judge.
Fun fact. The whole debt peonage thing did garner the attention of federal prosecutors, who thought it was fucked up. See, Debt peonage was actually outlawed by Congress in 1867. So one enterprising prosecutor actually took a bunch of assholes to court.
Those assholes argued that since the debt was fictitious, it wasn’t peonage, but was actually slavery. And since congress had never actually passed a law against slavery, they wanted their slaves back. This was in 1903.
The worst part is, the courts agreed.
Various fake debt schemes and other overt slavery shit was still going on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beeville\_couple\_arraigned\_on\_charge\_of\_holding\_Negro\_in\_slavery\_on\_farm\_(1942)\_The\_Brownsville\_Herald.jpg. You’ll note that 1942 is after the US joined WW2. That’s the entire reason for the final crackdown on chattel slavery schemes in the US…
Well, I say that. Sadly, there’s more to the story.
The holocaust was probably worse than a yankee telling a southerner his monuments don’t matter.
Yes, but to really understand this issue, imagine that those monuments were honoring famous Nazis.
And some asshole was saying that the monuments were his heritage.
oh I never disagreed with that
Thank you for the enlightening post, I’ve never heard of some of this at all, unfortunately.
Can I ask for a source onto he 1903 court case you mentioned? I’d love to read more.
The 1903 Tallaposa Peonage cases.
I’m not sure which case they’re referring to, but the concept they were talking about wasn’t outlawed until 1911 in Baily v Alabama.
Huh… interesting.
You may have convinced me.
Also waking up on a Thursday thinking it’s Friday is worse than the whole southern monuments thing
No… no it isn’t.
Nah, it totally is. That one makes me sad. Monuments to traitors and pieces of scum getting torn down makes me happy.
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I’m pretty sure he’s saying that, like slavery, the holocaust is worse than criticising monuments to confederates.
This original poster was talking about the US.
I read that as them adding the Holocaust to the pile of worse things
Is yankee offensive? I am british and have called americans “yanks” for the past 10 years at least… Should i stop or is it ok?
It’s only offensive to people from the southern US, but they’re offended by a lot of things so who cares?
Nah. It can be used derisively but isn’t in and of itself offensive. You’re ok. Good on you for asking though.
Confederate-wannabes can try to use it as an insult but that doesn’t really work. I take it as a point of pride over them.
The most likely etymological origins also make it hard to be insulting. “Little Jan” or “Jan Kaas/Cheese” is just a bit silly and endearing.
I think you are okay, guvna.
Not offensive, but others may feel differently.
You should keep doing it. It’s funny.
Meh, in Tennessee a local bar has the Confederate battle flag on the wall and I have heard in there several times that all Yankees should be shot, referring to anyone from the north. The issue is that people have moved around so much there are from the north in the south and vise versa. New York and California are the most hated states by many southerners.
So you would find it offensive?
If you say it referring to Americans as a British person, non offensive. If you are from somewhere where you use it as a derogatory term… I would say it is intended to segregate the populace and that will offend people.
In Australia the term is ‘Seppo’. Seppo / septic tank / yank.
It is used in Latin America as well as a serious denonym/gentilic. Though it can be used derisively, I’m assuming it’s the same over there.
I prefer to be called yankee doodle /s
This sounds dandy.
Hey, us white people have suffered, too - like, they took away our slaves!
Imagine you go back to the 1860s and you see a cohort of this capacity start something. No wonder they got their arses kicked.
I wish I could filter rage bait like this off my dash
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